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Oil prices could plunge below $20 a barrel this quarter as demand craters: CNBC survey

The oil prices article below is originally published by CNBC, where our CEO and founder Tony Nash was quoted. 

 

The oil price bust may not be over.

 

A historic demand shock sparked by the coronavirus pandemic is set to worsen in the current quarter, undermining any coordinated effort by heavyweight producers Saudi Arabia, Russia and the United States to cut supply aggressively and rebalance the market, according to a CNBC survey of 30 strategists, analysts and traders.

 

Episodic spikes of $20 a barrel or more in benchmark crude oil futures of the type seen last week cannot be ruled out as rivals Saudi Arabia and Russia attempt to reverse a damaging battle for market share and engineer a global supply deal which could cut up to 15 million barrels a day, the equivalent of about 10% of global supply.

 

But such price rallies are unlikely to last, according to the findings of the CNBC survey conducted over the past two weeks.

 

Brent crude futures, the barometer for 70% of globally trade oil, are likely to average $20 a barrel in the current quarter, according to the median forecast of 30 strategists, analysts and traders who responded to a CNBC survey, or 12 out of 30 respondents.

 

However, nearly a third, or nine of those surveyed, said prices may drop below $20 a barrel this quarter.

 

Amongst the more pessimistic projections, ANZ’s Daniel Hynes saw the risk of prices in the ‘mid-teens’ while JBC Energy’s Johannes Benigni warned that both Brent and US crude futures could ‘temporarily’ fall to around $10 a barrel.

 

 

New normal

 

The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), the supplier of a third of the world’s oil, and its rivals outside the group are “of pretty limited relevance in this context, as they are neither likely to be willing nor able to stem the current demand shock,” Benigni said.

 

Bearish forecasters said two forces would keep oil prices depressed in the second quarter — skepticism that Saudi Arabia and Russia would relent in their price war and commit to the deepest cuts in the producer group’s history (with or without participation from U.S. shale producers) and a glut in the current quarter caused by a monumental collapse in global demand as the full economic severity of the global coronavirus pandemic unfolds.

 

“A demand drop of 10% is the New Normal with oil,” said John Driscoll, director of JTD Energy Services in Singapore and a former oil trader whose career spans nearly 40 years.

 

Global commodities trader Trafigura’s chief economist Saad Rahim offered a starker prediction. Oil demand could fall by more than 30 million barrels a day in April, or around a third of the world’s daily oil consumption, Reuters reported on March 31, citing his forecasts.

 

And even if Saudi Arabia, its OPEC allies and major producers outside the group such as Russia and the U.S. did agree on aggressive supply restraint, it’s unlikely to materially drain global inventories that are closing in on what the oil industry calls ‘tank tops’, or storage capacity limits.

 

 

Too little, too late

 

“The long and short of it is that the current rally will likely be short lived,” Citigroup’s oil strategists led by Ed Morse said in an April 2 report.

 

“The big three oil producers may have found a way to work together to balance markets, but it looks like it is too little too late. That means prices would have to fall to the single digits to facilitate inventory fill and shut in production.”

 

Fatih Birol, executive director of the International Energy Agency said oil inventories would still rise by 15 million barrels a day in the second quarter even with output cuts of 10 million barrels a day, Reuters reported on April 3.

 

Citi expects Brent to average $17 a barrel in the current quarter and warned Moscow, Riyadh and Washington “cannot in the end stop prices from possibly falling below $10 before the end of April.”

 

Plus, travel restrictions, border closures, lockdowns and economic disruption caused by ‘social distancing’ and other measures taken by governments globally to slow the spread of the virus will exact a heavy toll on oil demand and could even linger when the virus clears, clouding the prospects of a recovery.

 

“As for the second quarter or even the third, I don’t see a V-shaped recovery for prices,” said Anthony Grisanti, founder and president of GRZ Energy, who has over 30 years of experience in the futures industry.

 

“The longer people are shut in the more likely behaviour will change…I have a hard time seeing oil above $30-35 a barrel over the next 6 months.”

 

 

Negative pricing

 

Standard Chartered oil analysts Paul Horsnell and Emily Ashford said they expect “an element of persistent demand loss that will continue after the virus has passed, driven by permanent changes in air travel behavior and the demand implications of businesses unable to recover from the initial shock.”

 

With demand at near-paralysis, oil and fuel tanks from Singapore to the Caribbean are close to brimming – stark evidence of the global glut.

 

Global oil storage is “rapidly filling – exceeding 70% and approaching operating max,” said Steve Puckett, executive chairman of TRI-ZEN International, an energy consultancy.

 

Citi’s oil analysis team and JBC Energy’s Johannes Benigni even warned of the risk of oil prices turning negative if benchmarks drop below zero, effectively meaning producers pay buyers to take the oil off their hands because they’ve run out of storage space.

 

“Theoretically, the unprecedented stock-build might mean negative oil prices in places, should the world or some regions run out of storage and if higher-cost production is stickier than thought,” Citi analysts said.

 

Despite the bearish consensus, nine survey respondents held a more constructive view. Within that group, six forecasters expected Brent crude prices to stabilize around the mid-to-late twenties in the second quarter while one called for $30 a barrel.

 

Tony Nash, founder and chief economist at analytics firm Complete Intelligence, and independent energy economist Anas Alhajji topped the range at $42- and $44 a barrel, respectively.

 

U.S. shale producers, who need $50 to $55 a barrel crude oil to just break-even, are struggling to maintain operations in a depressed price environment. That’s led to cutbacks in production and capital spending, job losses and bankruptcies across the U.S. shale industry and globally.

 

The oil market is underestimating such a shake out and its future impact on rebalancing the global oversupply, Alhajji said.

 

“Shut-ins are already taking place. Companies made major spending cuts and many will cut again.”

 

Markets are also downplaying the extent of the post-virus rebound on oil demand, Alhajji and Nash claimed, though determining the endpoint to the pandemic is near-impossible.

 

“We expect initial excitement over demand in May as the West comes back online, then it falls slightly as expectations are moderated going into June,” Complete Intelligence’s Nash said.

 

This article originally appeared in CNBC at https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/06/oil-prices-could-plunge-below-20-a-barrel-in-q2-as-demand-craters-cnbc-survey.html

Categories
Podcasts

Using Data to Scale your Business in a Smarter Way with Tony Nash

Tony Nash, CEO and founder of Complete Intelligence, speaks with Austinpreneur about using data to scale your business and talks about what his company does and how it helps businesses do better forecasting. Questions asked during the podcast:

 

  1. Tell us about yourself and your company.
  2. Can you contextualize and give examples of how your products and services help procurement folks?
  3. How did you come up with this business idea?
  4. Why did you decide to move from Singapore to Texas?
  5. What do you think caused the skills improvement in the US?
  6. What’s causing high turnover rates?
  7. What’s your take on AI and how does your computer use that?
  8. How are you working to build data privacy and security?
  9. What does the future look in AI and Complete Intelligence?
  10. What are the trends that you are looking at?
  11. Why don’t we have a higher level of transparency in products and processes?

Description from Austinpreneur: Trying to predict the future for any business can be a challenge. Accurate and reliable data is a highly prioritized need for any business in any market. Complete Intelligence was built to provide business with data that is highly accurate and will allow you to build and grow with a glimpse into what the future could be. Tony Nash has built Complete Intelligence to enable revenue teams and finance teams to better manage their risk.

 

Listen to the podcast in Austinpreneur.

 

Categories
News Articles

COVID-19: Towards the end of everything “made in China” for electronics manufacturers?

This post on Made in China first appeared in https://www.usine-digitale.fr/article/covid-19-vers-la-fin-du-tout-made-in-china-pour-les-fabricants-d-electronique.N950286. The copy posted below is originally in French and was Google-translated to English.

 

It is an old factory with a decrepit facade, on which climb some wild grasses. At the edge of this canal in the south of Taipei, only a watchman watches the ear. The plot has just been bought by the Taiwanese electronics manufacturer Pegatron to increase its production capacity in Taiwan. Reported by the financial media Bloomberg, the initiative is the latest in a series of investment projects outside of China announced by Taiwanese subcontractors.

 

From Apple to Samsung, these shadow firms manufacture, assemble and sometimes design products on behalf of major electronics brands. Most of these companies have their headquarters and a handful of factories in Taiwan. But the final assembly is mainly carried out on the other side of the strait. The Taiwanese giant Foxconn, the main assembler of the iPhone, thus employs more than a million workers in China, distributed in twelve giant factories.

 

“FACTORY CITIES” CHALLENGED BY THE PANDEMIC

 

This model, based on economies of scale, was severely tested by the COVID-19 crisis. Travel bans imposed by Chinese authorities have led to production delays, as evidenced by the shortage of Nintendo Switch, assembled by Foxconn. The firm also anticipates a 15% decrease in revenue for the first quarter of 2020.

 

“The ‘gigantic’ model takes a hell of a slap, straightforward analysis Pascal Viaud, managing director of UBIK, a company specializing in partnerships and industrial cooperation based in Taiwan. The sectors are aware of their dependence on China and the logistical risks that this implies. Some companies, especially the smaller ones, did not necessarily know this because it concerns their second or third level of subcontracting. ”

 

According to recent announcements from Taiwanese subcontractors, the COVID-19 epidemic would push major brands to rethink their production line. Wistron, another supplier to Apple, recently unveiled a budget of $ 1 billion for projects of new factories in India, Vietnam and Mexico. “Many signals from our customers let us think that’s what we need to do “, Wistron chief strategy officer Simon Lin said in a conference call reported by the Singaporean daily Straits Times. According to Bloomberg, Foxconn, for its part, planned an envelope of $ 17 billion for projects in India and Vietnam.

 


Foxconn’s headquarters in Taiwan

 

LOOKING FOR ALTERNATIVES TO CHINA

 

“China is becoming riskier for these companies, which may have felt that authorities withheld information during the epidemic, said Tony Nash, chief executive of Complete Intelligence, a business planning platform. costs and revenues of companies running on artificial intelligence. These companies are increasingly looking for alternatives to China. This is a classic risk reduction strategy already at work, but one that will seriously accelerate the next three years. ”

 

Kuan-lin (the first name has been changed) can testify to this. This salesperson works for a Taiwanese manufacturer whose client is a famous American brand of computers. For the past three weeks, the employee has been under constant pressure from his hierarchy and rarely leaves his office before 10 p.m. “Because of the epidemic, our client is asking us to speed up a project to build a factory in Mexico,” he explains, with dark circles and a pale complexion.

 

 

TRADE WAR WEIGHS ON SUBCONTRACTORS

 

The trend is not new. The trade war between China and the United States had already pushed part of the electronic production out of China. The manufacturers hoped to escape the sanctions of the Trump administration, applied to “Made in China” products. Depending on its Chinese factories, Foxconn had paid the price: according to calculations by the specialized media Bloomberg, the profits of the subcontractor fell by 24% for the period from October to December 2019.

 

“Competitors who did not have production lines in Taiwan have been disadvantaged by the trade war, confirms a manager of a Taiwanese electronics company which has a production tool on site. Thanks to our Taiwanese factory, we were able to reserve our products made in Taiwan for the American market. ”

 

With a skilled workforce and cutting-edge infrastructure, Taiwan is well placed to stand out. The Taiwanese government has elsewhere launched a vast plan to facilitate the return of factories to its soil. But the archipelago lacks space and has a limited comparative advantage. “Taiwan is suitable for high-end products, which can be sold more expensive, points out the same frame. For other products, manufacturing in Taiwan has an impact on profitability.”

 

 

TOWARDS REGIONALIZATION OF PRODUCTION

 

The most likely scenario seems to be that of a regionalization of production, which would jointly benefit several countries. “This is not going to be a massive departure from China, anticipates Tony Nash. For Asia, there will simply be more additional parts manufactured in Taiwan or Vietnam. For the American market, it could be Mexico.”

 

As a note from Deloitte suggests, this shift could also be accompanied by increased digitization of the production chain. Joined by L’Usine Digitale, Eddie Chang, head of finance at ASE Group, one of the Taiwanese behemoths for the assembly and testing of electronic circuits, confirms this future direction: “We are going to develop technologies enabling virtual teamwork and industrial automation. We also plan to increase the automation of our logistics to reduce human interactions”.

 

 

CHINA HAS NOT SAID ITS LAST WORD

 

However, the recent development of the epidemic calls for caution. In China, the main factories have returned to their pre-crisis operating level. Foxconn was able to restore production of the new iPhone SE with massive hires and inflated work premiums. “During the crisis in China, our factories were at 60% of their capacity, today we are not far from 100%”, confirms a sector executive whose factories are in Shenzhen.

 

At the same time, the countries presented as alternatives to China are in turn impacted by the epidemic. In India, where Apple produces its iPhones for the local market, Foxconn and Wistron have announced that they have suspended production until mid-April. The US state of Wisconsin, where a Foxconn factory is soon to come out of the ground, has seen in recent days a dizzying increase in the number of cases of contamination.

 

“The new turn that the COVID-19 crisis has taken is a game-changer,” says Aymeric Mariette, research officer at the France China Committee. The attitude [of electronics companies located in China] is now much more wait-and-see for relocations “. Apple CEO Tim Cook also defended himself at the end of February from any major movement, preferring to speak of “adjustment adjustments” linked to the crisis.

 

Especially since China will not let these companies slip through its fingers so easily. The strategic challenges are significant: the ecosystem of electronic suppliers has enabled Chinese brands, such as Huawei, to follow in the footsteps of American giants. “The Chinese authorities are carrying out charming offensives towards foreign investors in China, for example with the promise of equal treatment in access to financial aid, facilitation of investments or even the announcement of new reforms, analyzes Aymeric Mariette: China knows that it is now ahead of the other major world economies and intends to profit from it. ”

 

Categories
Podcasts

Worse GDPs, Market Expectations, Chinese Manufacturing, and the Rising US Dollar

BFM speaks to Tony about corporate earnings as worse GDPs, market expectations, and the Dow and S&P 500 extended losses after their worst quarter since 2008 as Trump warned of a “painful two weeks ahead”. They also get into Tony’s expectations for markets in April, the shortage of US Dollars globally and Chinese Manufacturing data.

 

Produced by: Michael Gong

Presented by: Roshan Kanesan, Noelle Lim, Khoo Hsu Chuang

 

Listen to the podcast at BFM: The Business Station

 

 

Podcast Notes

 

BFM: But right now. Let’s take a look at global markets, a deeper look at global markets and to do that, we speak to Tony Nash, CEO of complete intelligence. Tony, thank you for joining us on the line this morning. Now the Dow and the S&P 500 extended loss after their worse quarter since 2008, as Trump warned of a painful two weeks. I think, for the Dow, this was the worst quarter since 1987, if I’m not incorrect there. Now, how badly is this going to hit US corporate earnings across the board?

 

TN: It does really depend on the energy sector, but generally it’s hitting things pretty bad. I guess the good news is it’s only part of Q1. So the last few weeks of Q1, but I guess the big question mark and the reason markets are really saying negative is nobody is sure how long we need to endure?

 

It is another couple of weeks, is it another few months? And that’s why we’re seeing markets in the red because nobody really knows. And so I live in Houston, in Texas. So it’s the energy capital of the world. Malaysia’s feeling a similar pressure with the oil and gas and a lot of my neighbors, thousands of my neighbors have been laid off from their jobs. So it’s not just the stores being shut and things that are not happening. It’s actual incomes not coming in as well.

 

So that consumption part of the GDP calculation will be decimated for at least a single week. And this is why you’ve seen the big government intervention come in with the 2-terms plan, which allows government spending. That ‘G’ part of the GDP calculation, it allows that to replace some of the consumer spendings and that’s one component that’s been displaced over the last few weeks and will be displaced for the part of Q2. So, our view is it the last fiscal plan in the U.S.?

 

We expect at least one more, if not two, five to six trillion dollars of fiscal spending from the U.S. government. The real question is whether other governments can afford to match a similar proportion of their GDP. I’m skeptical that none of them can. So what matters right now to consumers is fiscal health, fiscal spending. For central banks do not matter as much. What matters is getting hands into the consumers.

 

BFM: U.S. right now has over 200 thousand COVID-19 cases and the situation does not look like it’s improving, and we might see even more lockdowns in the U.S. So do you expect markets will perform even more badly in April? And how might markets land in April?

 

TN: No, I think what’s affecting markets really is the uncertainty not necessarily the case count because, you know, not all tests are created equally. And what really matters in the case count is the denominator.

 

What we found is, yes US test is actually pretty accurate, unlike a number of other tests out there. And so the number of false positives and false negatives are a lot lower that’s my understanding of the US test. And the portion of population that’s been tested in the US is growing pretty rapidly. So although we see those cases counts growing, we see it as a fairly good example of the real picture in the US. Now, what we have seen on the ground here in the U.S. So the governor of Texas came out a few days ago and said that 99 percent of the bed space allocated for covered patients is empty. So we’re not seeing people in hospitals here. We are seeing things in other parts of the country. And of course, there are cases here. But what we’re doing again and again and again is that people will come in with other ailments that will be diagnosed as COVID. So COVID is a secondary or tertiary infection to something that is really, really ailing them.

 

So and that’s the question that people need to start peeling back is, “Is COVID the primary cause of that fatality or is was there already a number of other ailments in place and COVID was somewhat incidental?” Until we start asking these questions, you really won’t understand how deeply dire the problem is.

 

BFM: Tony, there’s a shortage of US dollars in the world today obviously as a safe haven. The Fed has introduced a new repo facility for foreign central banks to draw down on what you know about this facility and how effective has it been?

 

TN: Well, it’s been pretty effective. I mean, we see the trade weighted dollar down 99 with a 99 handle on it now it was up 103 or something, which makes it very difficult for people outside of the U.S. needing dollars. There’s a lot of U.S. dollars denominated debt. There’s a lot of trade conducted in U.S. dollars. So if the US dollar is expensive and if governments are having to buy medical equipment and other things in U.S. dollars, it makes it even harder for them to address some of these quality concerns. So the US government has been working very hard to help other countries by pushing the value of the U.S. dollar down. So these facilities and it’s easy for countries to put up pretty low quality assets in exchange for U.S. dollars. So that the U.S. can churn more U.S. dollars out into the global economy to grain that supply up and, of course, bring the value down. So I’m not really optimistic that they’ll be able to keep it down for long. I think the flight to kind of safe haven currencies is going to persist. So I think the dollar value is going to rise, continue to rise. But I think it’s really important for the Fed to focus on this and to take these efforts in the short term to help countries get the equipment they need and transact in dollars at a lower rate.

 

BFM: There’s a report forecasting a severe contraction for China this year, however, the latest PMI data beat market expectations. What is your current outlook on China’s economy?

 

TN: You know what’s interesting forecast, because the world’s economies can’t have a very downbeat China forecast without China’s permission. So, somebody is trying to get bad news out there, okay? So I think what we may be seeing, because we saw the PMIs came out a couple days ago that weren’t that bad. But we’ve also seen a lot of government spending to try to offset the lack of business and consumer activity. So there’s no doubt there’s going to be a bad reading in China this year. And I think the World Bank report is a way for the Chinese government to allow us to get out into the market first so they’re not seen as disappointing on their deliverable of 6 percent. So we’ve, you know, Complete Intelligence had believed that China’s been growing at 4 to 5 percent for the past couple of years. So with this, I believe it’s a 2.7 percent rate been said for continuous something, I can’t remember. But it allows China to deliver under 6 percent to deliver over whatever the World Bank forecast was so that they can start to notch down those expectations. So I think the World Bank report is probably credible. I don’t know that it’s necessarily that dire, but it might be, that I think it gives NBS and China an excuse to clock significantly under 6 layer.

 

BFM: Tony, how about your comments changed as the context of a couple of reports overnight suggesting a) that China has been doctoring the data on coronavirus the last couple of months and b) that a county in China, other reports suggesting that parts of the country is not under a new lockdown because of a further outbreak.

 

TN: Well, first, I don’t think it’s crazy that anybody that China’s been doctoring the data, but I don’t think China is unique. I think there are many, many countries out there that are doctoring the data. I think political leaders are afraid that corona would be seen as a political failure. And so I think many, many numbers. And China, usually have been singled out in this kind of data doctoring, which they’re guilty, but they’re not the only ones. So, you know, is there a resurgence of this? I don’t know if there’s a resurgence as much as maybe it didn’t pale off in the way the Chinese authorities said it did. So whether it’s a statistical resurgence, you know, maybe that’s the case. But these were you know, these were always there and they didn’t see the decline that was expected several weeks ago. I think that’s likelier than the fact that there’s just some crazy resurgence in COVID in China. But, you know, I don’t think anybody should be shocked. I don’t think China is angry or guilty than anybody else. They’re known for this. A lot of statistics ministries are known for its reporting and health agencies on this reporting. So it’s just the nature of reporting national level data that can be seen as politically sensitive.

 

BFM: Thank you so much for joining us on the line this morning. That was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence.

 

Categories
Podcasts

US crude oil price collapses to 18-year low

US crude oil prices fell below $20 a barrel on Monday, close to their lowest level in 18 years, as traders bet production would have to shut to prevent a glut in the markets. The situation is particularly bleak for high-cost wells in the world’s largest producer: the US. We talk to Ellen Wald, from the Atlantic Council, in Florida, and Tom Adshead, a director of Macro Advisory in Moscow.

 

Meanwhile, the Coronavirus outbreak has caused a rather startling change in fish consumption in Kenya. Instead of importing stocks from China, Kenyans have refound their taste for local catches, boosting incomes within the industry. And what do you do when you’re in lockdown?

 

Podcast Notes:

BBC: What’s your thought on this, especially Houston is the self-proclaimed oil capital of the world?

 

TN: It’s had a huge impact. I live in North of Houston where Exxon Mobil is based, were the largest oil producer in the world is 5 minutes from my house. So it’s having a huge impact directly to our neighborhood and of course, Houston more broadly.

 

BBC: How many jobs in this industry? Can Houston diversify?

 

TN: Houston has done a lot of work diversifying over the last 30 years. Medicine, we have the largest health center in the US with the Houston Medical Center. The port of Houston is one of the largest ports in the US. There is quite a lot of financial services here. However, energy is still a large contributor to Houston. A crude price under $20 is really devastating for Houston and 10 of thousands of jobs have already been lost.

 

BBC: Is it viable at that sort of prices?

 

TN: I don’t think it’s viable for anybody. It’s not like the Saudi VS Russia VS Texas issue. It’s not viable fiscally for Iran, Russia, for anyone to pull oil from the ground at these prices. They can’t run their governments at these prices. It’s not viable commercially for companies in Texas to pull oil from the ground at these prices. These prices are not helping anybody. It really is the demand shock of coronavirus and the Saudi-Russia feud. If we didn’t have the demand shock, we wouldn’t be here. We’ll probably be in the 40s and the Saudi plan would be effective.

 

Also talks about computer online games, monopoly, jigsaw puzzles, and others.

 

Listen to the BBC Business Matters podcast here. 

Categories
QuickHit Visual (Videos)

QuickHit: How healthy are banks in this COVID-19 era?

 

This week’s QuickHit episode, Tony Nash talked with Dave Mayo, CEO and Founder of FedFis, and an expert on banking, finance, and Fintech. This episode looks at US financial institutions like banks and how they are faring during the Coronavirus pandemic. Will new financial technologies help streamline the process of providing services like loans to medium and small businesses?

 

Watch the previous QuickHit episode on the Status of Global Supply Chain in Time of Coronavirus with the president of Secure Global Logistics, George Booth.

The views and opinions expressed in this QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

Show Notes

 

TN: Hi, everybody. This is Tony Nash. I’m the founder and CEO of Complete Intelligence. This is our Quick Hit where we talk to industry experts about issues in markets and in industries.

 

Today we’re with Dave Mayo. Dave is the founder and CEO of FedFis based in Texas. Dave, thanks for joining us, I really appreciate it.

 

Can you tell us a little bit about FedFis? And then I’d really love to jump into how you’re helping out the financial services sector.

 

DM: Sure. We’re a unique company. We sit as a layer above banking, we call FI fintech, and then fintech. From the banking side obviously, we are a data company and provider and intelligence. From the FI fintech side, those would be the vendors to the institutions like their core mobile offering. And then FinTech, that’s the new stuff, right? That’s the sexy stuff, like the Chime and the SoFis and those types of companies that used to be alt banking and now they’re joined back to banking again. So we help all of those different layers in one way or another through a data set that we have and intelligence.

 

TN: With everything going on in the wake of Coronavirus, there’s been a lot of talk about fiscal stimulus coming out of D.C. and stimulus through the Fed and other things. What is the health of the banking sector from your perspective? Because back in 2008 the banking sector was the worry, right? Is that the worry now? Is that something we should be worried about?

 

DM: I think our banking industry is based on a level of faith. It always has been, right? Now that said, this is a completely different situation. Banks are very well-capitalized. Banks are not the cause of the problem. We don’t have a systemic banking problem or issue. We’re very, very healthy right now. When you talk about a stimulus being put into the economy, the more money flows in and out, the more people spend and buy and purchase, the better things are. That’s just the way the banking industry is built.

 

TN: How do you see banking and FinTech really helping? Obviously we know how they help big companies with big placements and debt and these sorts of things. But how do you see them helping small and mid-sized companies with this economic gulf that we have right now, where the economy’s effectively been turned off for a period of time, which is a bit weird? How do you see, what you’re doing, and banks generally, really helping out there on the smaller and midsize level?

 

DM: I think there’s a big gap in education in our country when it comes to banking. People are like, “I don’t like banks” or “I like banks.” When there are the big banks, the big four: the B of A, Wells Fargo, Chase, Citi. And then we have community banks.

 

Community bankers all across the country, they’re the life of our banking system. They’re the heartbeat. It’s actually a lower touch point for consumers and FinTech with the dramatic decline in a number of community institutions that has really opened up this opportunity for a FinTech. And the reason being is it’s a direct touch point.

 

So if you were to say “I want to use my mobile device” or “I want to use my online to do banking without having to actually drive to an institution and deal with all their policies and all of the things that go with it,” it’s a faster connection point. And I think we’re probably going to see a lot of that in these business loans the PPP loans through the stimulus plan.

 

TN: How do we actually execute that from the Treasury to the small business owner or to the individual that needs help? So, do you think that some of these FinTechs are kind of non-banks? I mean, would you consider them kind of non-banks within this system? Do you think they’ll be able to do this stuff faster? And I don’t mean this as a negative to banks. Banks are highly regulated. Do you think some of these FinTechs will be able to do some of this stuff faster?

 

DM: It depends on which way you look at it. Because here’s the deal: so when we talk about banking and then we talked about FI FinTech and then FinTech. So a bank is a chartered institution and FI FinTech is a technology arm of that like online banking, mobile banking. A FinTech is something that looks like a bank, talks like a bank, but it doesn’t have a charter. It’s not really a bank. So they have to partner with an existing bank to charter. So there’s a bank behind every FinTech company. So when you think of Chime and companies like that, there’s an actual bank behind that company that’s doing the regulatory side of this to protect consumers.

 

TN: You guys track a lot of data around banking and real estate and consumer stuff and industry stuff. Are you seeing any data that’s really talking about or raising your worries about the velocity of money about how quickly people are spending? Are you seeing that data? If it’s worrying you, when does that worry end for you? Do you see us going back in to say a quasi-normal situation within the next two months or something?

 

DM: Predicting the future I’ve never really been a big proponent of. That’s your business. But for us, what we look at are key components.

 

One way to measure things right now is to look at a mortgage note on a 15 or a 30. What is the spread between, what we would call in the old days, prime and what is the asking rate on that loan So you’re generally looking at above 3 percent. And as long as you’re looking at that, that’s a strong indication that there’s a lot of refis going on right now. And so the spread is there. That’s an adequate spread for banks to make money. There’s a huge volume of it going on. And as long as we see that volume and people continue to go to the bank, cash their checks, direct deposit always helps.

 

When we use our debit cards, when we go out and do the things that we do. Changing our mechanism of spending money whether it’s through Amazon as opposed to going through the mall doesn’t change the fact that you’re still spending money. Those are all positive things.

 

But I think the one thing we want to keep an eye on is the volume of lending. Everyone in a situation like this is going to have a tendency to kind of climb up a little bit. And, as long as that continues to flow, and one of the primary things that I’d be looking at is refis and other lending types of loan, etc.

 

TN: Are there any specific indicators you’re looking at on the commercial side to see if people are climbing up?

 

DM: I don’t really see anything from that perspective. I don’t think people are running out there right now at a time like this. It’s fairly obvious. You wouldn’t want to run out and start a new construction project or something like that. Those are gonna have an impact. There’s no way around it, but there again that’s what stimulus is there to offset.

 

Right now, I would say we’ve got a very healthy banking system. We’re coming out of a very healthy economy and so what’s our time frame of a bounce-back is it going to be a v-bottom or is it going to be spread out? I think it’ll be a little more spread out than a V-bottom and I think they’ll probably be multiple cycles of this that go on to some degree.

 

But starting from a really healthy position in our banking system and in our economy, this will pass. And when it does, here’s the thing I think is so interesting, unprecedented levels of stimulus and, the old saying you don’t fight the Fed, right? So does the market go up and we have a stimulated economy? Of course it does. And with this level of pent-up demand and stimulus, will there be a bounce back? Yeah, there’ll be a bounce back. The question is how huge will it be and how fast?

 

TN: That’s great Dave. It’s a huge source of optimism. Thank you so much for that and I really appreciate that you’ve taken the time to join us today. So really appreciate your time and and thanks very much for, for all that you’ve shared with us today. I really appreciate it.

Categories
Visual (Videos)

COVID-19 effects on the US Economy

As the COVID-19 effects hit in the US, more than 3 million Americans lost their jobs last week. Reports also show a sluggish growth on personal consumption. The Fed Chairman says the US may already be in recession. We are joined by Tony Nash, CEO and Founder of Complete Intelligence, from Houston, Texas.

 

CNA: We’ve got this incredible amount of stimulus in the system, and the market seems loving it. The fundamentals of COVID-19 are getting worse, but the markets seem to be moving another direction. Is there a disconnect?

 

TN: I don’t think there is. I think there are two things. First, people want better information. With the testing and other things. Not all tests are created equally. We are not told the denominator of the tests. I’m not an expert, but there are some issues around that not all countries’ numbers are created equally. But the 2 trillion dollar stimulus, it’s not possible that that’s the extent of the stimulus that the US government is going to issue.

 

This is a government-induced recession, globally. A recession is typically an economic failure, a financial failure. What has happened is that governments have effectively turned down the economy like putting their economies in a coma. So there’s nothing that companies can do to avoid this. This is the responsibility of every government that puts strict measures in place and it’s their responsibility to make sure that their economies are back up.

 

CNA: Are you concerned about the cost to cushion the fall of COVID-19 effects? Remember the 2008 financial crises and how much money it took back then—hundreds and billions? We are now talking about trillions here. When will we able to see the kind of recovery that we saw in the past 10 years once we’re over COVID-19?

 

TN: I do believe we’ll see that recovery. I believe this is sufficiently different. It was not the market’s fault. This was the investor market, investor banks back in 2008, 2009. This is the government today. So it’s the government’s responsibility to fix what they did. I understand they’re responding to COVID-19 and its effects, but they’re the ones to put the measures in place. They’re the ones to handcuff managers, CEOs, and executive teams. So it’s the government’s responsibility to help companies start back up.

 

CNA: On that note, Donald Trump wants the American workforce to get back to their jobs as everybody wants to work. I don’t doubt that. Do you agree with that? Is that the solution, the elixir to the problem here?

 

TN: I do believe that. I’m actually more worried about the social issues associated with jobless dislocation than really the COVID-19 effects. Not that I don’t care. I want everyone to take measures. But the social dislocation of people in their prime working age. Being laid off. We have 3 million of them as reported today. These are people in their prime. They’re earning and they’re losing their jobs. We’re gonna see a lot of problems. And so, depression, suicide, all sorts of things.

 

My fear is that those things start to manifest in the next few weeks. So the US has to get back to work. Americans have to get back to work. Otherwise, people will be short on their bills and they’ll feel incredibly stressed.

 

CNA: How bad do you think the economic data is going to get? Now that we got the 3.3 million jobless claims out of the United States? Is this just going to continue to get worse and worse down the pipeline here?

 

TN: Oh yeah. I think it will get worse until probably the third week of April or maybe the 4th week of April. We’ll continue to see this over the next month until the hump. Once we get over the hump, we’ll see, once the fiscal stimulus starts to take place, which is the big difference this time.

 

We’re seeing a lot of fiscal stimulus. That’s the difference. It’s not just the Fed printing dollars, of course, that’s happening. But we’re seeing fiscal stimulus going straight to end consumers. That’s very important.

 

CNA: What can we learn from China’s response in this situation? It seems things are returning back to normal in China with Hubei province opening up, Wuhan in 2 weeks, traffic jams in Beijing. Can the US look forward to that extrapolation? What’s happening in China, coz I mean the capital markets in China have made a decent recovery as well.

 

TN: I think the US is going to come back pretty aggressively in say the last week of April or early May. I don’t see that the way the US is handling it is similar to China, given the civil liberties that Americans have, there’s absolutely no way that that would work in America.

 

We have a thing called the 4th Amendment in the US that allows people to assemble and leave their houses. So welding people in their apartments wouldn’t work here, and so the US had to take other measures. And I actually think it’s being fairly effective. The case count in the US looks like it’s high, but I’m not convinced that we’re seeing full reporting from any other countries.

 

CNA: Thanks so much, great to chat with you. Stay safe there in Houston, Texas.

 

 

Watch the interview on Channel News Asia’s Asia First. 

Categories
News Articles Visual (Videos)

[Global Insight] Why are stocks, oil prices continuing to crash?

 

Arirang News notes:

 

Oil prices have fallen sharply for four consecutive weeks now. Slumping by more than 60 percent since the turn of 2020. As the coronavirus pandemic continues to severely disrupt business, travel and daily life, demand for crude has been plunging, and major producers like Russia and Saudi Arabia haven’t helped the situation by launching an intense price war.

 

This is stirring even more volatility in global stock markets as the world economy reels from the coronavirus pandemic. It’s a time of uncertainty but to provide us with a better sense of what might lie ahead, we’re joined by Dr. Kang Wu, Head of Analytics, Asia at S&P Global Platts, and Tony Nash, CEO and Founder of Complete Intelligence.

 

Let’s first talk about the losses seen on Wall Street on Monday. Dr. Wu, starting with you: U.S. stocks ended in the red, after a two trillion dollar coronavirus support package failed to pass the Senate for the second time. And stocks have been extremely volatile in recent weeks despite the Federal Reserve having cut its interest rates twice this month and rolling out other never-seen-before measures. Why have these moves failed to reassure investors and are you expecting markets to fall even further?

 

This is a very volatile time and overall the demand globally on commodities and on the economy is very weak. So it’s a panicking situation for many economies. It really is up to the individual governments to stimulate the economy and global organizations. I do see that the current downward pressure on the economy and the commodity market will continue until we have a solution. However, the government of the US and other countries and the Fed could help the situation.

 

 

Oil prices have also been getting battered day after day, due to lower demand and this oil price war between Saudi Arabia and Russia. Mr. Nash, Moscow started it by refusing to agree to cut its oil production. It’s a dangerous game of chicken so what are they aiming to gain from this brinkmanship?

 

I think they’re just aiming for more say in the trajectory for crude. This is really a capacity game. Russia doesn’t have the additional capacity available really to go to up against Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia has a lot of capacity available. So if Saudi Arabia wants, they can continue producing more volume. The problem is neither government can afford to produce at these rates. They need crude prices about $20 higher than they are right now. So we don’t see this as viable for either government for much longer.

 

 

Dr. Wu, you were in charge of research in global energy markets in Riyadh. What do you think MPS’s strategy is. Can either country afford this war and who do you think will blink first?

 

I agree that there is an issue with the physical budget for Saudi Arabia and similarly there is the issue of the budget for Russia. However, in terms of how long we can sustain the current low prices also depends on how they are fiscally and the reserves they have.

 

Saudi Arabia oil is very important. Crown Prince has been trying to very hard to diversify the economy of Saudi Arabia. So currently the overall oil market is in turmoil in a way that they have very few strategies to pursue. One is to preserve the prices and the other one is to preserve the market share or drive out competitors. So it seemed that after three and a half years of trying the price defense, now they are turning to another strategy to drive out the competition in the oil market.

 

 

Dr. Wu: With the impact of COVID-19 on markets and economies around the world, what dangers lurk around the corner if this oil price war rages on for a prolonged period of time? Is it a potential nail in the coffin for many oil companies who were already struggling to turn a profit when oil was 40 dollars a barrel, let alone 20 dollars?

 

Many companies, many players will get hurt. Other OPEC producers and exporters, smaller ones other than Russia, which is an OPEC and a Saudi Arabia, they will get hurt, and globally, US shale oil producers and Canadian heavy oil sands project operators, if the low oil price continues. Once you know that the global oil storage is running to the limit, then there’s no choice. Some have to give up. Some have to reduce production. And that will start from the high oil producers around the world.

 

 

Mr. Nash: Some say the motivation behind this price war is to hurt U.S. shale gas producers? Do you agree and will it work? Can the US Shale industry complex survive a prolonged stretch with oil basically being given away? How should the U.S. government react to this?

 

In 2015, we saw OPEC really take that aggressive stance against shale producers. I think it failed because US authorities tried to, and very effectively, extended credit to shale producers. I think this time that those same or even more aggressive instruments will be put in place to defend shale producers.

 

That’s not to say everyone is going to be healthy. That’s not to say there won’t be consolidation in shale. It’s also not to say there won’t be kind of closed downs in places that are really expensive like Colorado and other places to produce. But I think in general, the aim is to ensure that the volume of shale production in the US stays relatively consistent and that the US can continue to be a net producer of crude and I think that’s really what the US is focused on.

 

So I see this as a Saudi-Russia issue, and perhaps a Saudi-Iran issue as much as it is a kind of Saudi-Russia-Shale issue.

 

 

As an aftermath of this, what do you think the long-term impact would be on oil markets on all companies across the world?

 

Crude companies have to become much more efficient. There’s a lot of automation, there’s a lot of other things that can happen within oil companies. There’s a difference between national oil companies and independent oil companies. so the national oil companies are typically pretty inefficient, and they’ll probably stay that way. The independent oil companies, really the private sector ones, will have to get even more competitive, which there’s plenty of room for them to get competitive and I think they’ll be the healthier ones in the long run.

 

 

Dr. Wu: OPEC’s current production cut deal expires at the end of the month. Do you see prices dropping even further after that? (and if so, how would it affect broader financial markets?)

 

Yes, I do. At the end of the month, I do not see that Russia and Saudi Arabia will come back to the negotiation table very soon. Eventually, they might. But not in a very short time. So April is probably a pretty challenging month for the oil market as the demand continued to drop due to the pandemic of the Coronavirus and oil production. Not only the price formulas by Saudi Arabia, but physical supply of OPEC, particularly Saudi Arabia UAE will increase. That will put a lot of pressure on non-OPEC producers, which are more dominated by independent in North America. Of course also national oil companies as well. At the end of the day, the market needs to be balanced. So Asian players included can buy more oil but up to the limit of the storage, up to the limit of the current state of demand, which is very, very weak.

 

What do you think, Mr. Nash? Do you think there’ll be another oil cut, though?

 

It’s possible. What we’re seeing is we think the last half of April we’ll actually see prices return. We think toward the end of April, we’ll start to see prices back in the 40s. So things may get slightly worse in the short term, and anything is possible. But we know within the 40s, crude prices are depressed anyway. We’ve started to see Asia really come back online post-Corona and we’ll see that kind of move westward as well. So that consumption capacity as that comes back online, that will put pressure on prices.

 

The pressure between the Saudi government and the Russian government, their fiscal revenues, there will be serious pressure there. And you can bet there’s probably pressure from the US government on the Saudis and the Russians to resolve this. So I think that pressure will only intensify over the next two weeks. And we’ll see some resolution say mid-April or third week of April.

 

 

Thank you very much for joining the program today Dr. Kang Wu, Head of Analytics, Asia at S&P Global Platts, and Tony Nash, CEO and Founder of Complete Intelligence.

Categories
QuickHit Visual (Videos)

QuickHit: Status of Global Supply Chain in Time of Coronavirus

In this week’s QuickHit episode, Tony Nash speaks with George Booth, the President of Secure Global Logistics. SGL is a complete logistics company with global and domestic services. We dig deeper into the status of global supply chains within this era of Coronavirus or COVID-19 and learn how companies move things across the globe, and what that is looking like right now.

 

Last week’s Quick Hit episode was about how SMEs are affected by the global pandemic and pieces of advice from an expert on the best course of action. Watch it here.

 

The views and opinions expressed in this QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

 

Show Notes:

 

TN: Hi, this is Tony Nash with Complete Intelligence. This is our weekly Quick Hit that we publish each week. We’ve got George Booth, President of Secure Global Logistics in Houston, Texas.

 

We’re really interested to understand George’s view on the impact of Coronavirus on global logistics, supply chains, and trade. And what the impact is on the volume, timing and magnitude of trade. George, first could you tell us just a real quick overview of SGL? Then let’s get into some of the topics.

 

GB: Yes, good morning, Tony. Good to be here. The SGL is a complete logistics company. We do a full suite of global and domestic logistics, including import, customs brokerage, exports by air and sea and domestic by air and road. We also do 3PL logistics, so full warehousing, packing and getting ready for export.

 

TN: Perfect. That’s great George. Thanks very much. And I really appreciate you taking the time to talk. I know there’s a lot going on as shippers and the other folks try to figure out how to get goods to destination with the disruption of the supply chain. Can you help us understand, what are you seeing in terms of volumes for your clients?

 

GB: Yeah. Well, interestingly, the volumes haven’t dropped off yet. We would expect that to happen almost immediately. Shut down hasn’t started to happen here. It hasn’t happened yet. I think we’ve been slightly helped with a buffer by China coming back online.

 

In January and February, we took a real hit from our customers that import from China. That’s when they just shut down and factories were closed. We saw nothing coming in, but that’s now picking back up.

 

For example, we have a customer who does a monthly freight out of China. That hadn’t happened in like two months, and this week we’re moving 21 ton of freight out of China. And he said, “Get it here fast.” They want to get the product on the market and sell it.

 

We haven’t seen a drop off yet. We’re also seeing a big spike in freight this past week, and even yesterday, as a lot of clients are preparing for a shutdown. So they’re trying to get that product moving and maybe converting from sea freight, ocean freight to air freight to get it moving and to get to the destination before the shutdown happens.

 

TN: OK. So volume has been pretty consistent. What about, you know, as we’ve seen, say, the crude price, because I understand some of your clients are big gas firms.  With the crude price declining as it happens, what impact has that had on shipping rates? And what is the typical relationship of crude price and shipping rates?

 

GB: Well, this is really interesting. I’ve been in the shipping industry for all of my career of about 25 years. And this is the first time we’re not seeing a direct correlation between lower oil price and low freight rates.

 

That’s been really challenging, our clients are suffering from a lower price, but we have had to present them with much higher rates from the carriers and particularly air freight.

 

The air freight in the past, when the oil price was down, the freight rates go down with it. And then when they go up, you see a big spike included fuel surcharges. But because of capacity issues, air freight has now become almost the highest bidder scenario.

 

Some airlines are selling to the highest bidder. We are seeing freight rates in some cases 10 times what they normally ask. Something would have paid a dollar fifty per kilo in the past, we’re now seeing going for up fifteen dollars.

 

I’ve seen a lot of lack of flexibility from the air freight carriers, as well. While in the past you might have booked it, and the factory wasn’t quite ready or it wasn’t ready to export. You’d still book it into the next day with no charge for lost slots.

 

If you don’t show up with your freight, they’ve been really clear, which, again, from a supply chain, you can understand, they’re not getting the same return. So they’re making it inflate.

 

I once had an airline say that the best deal for them is that the cabin, first-class cabin is full, economy empty, and the belly full of freight. Now, they don’t do first class. So they’re making all their money on the various freights.

 

TN: Are you seeing sea freight come down or stay the same or what’s happening with sea freights?

 

GB: Well, sea freights have been very interesting as well, because the distribution of liner and equipment, shipping containers, there’s a backlog in China because China hasn’t been moving.

 

A lot of equipment is stuck in China. The past few weeks, we’ve started to see competitive, very competitive sea freight rates coming out of China as China tries to boost the economy, get freight moving. And also as liners are trying to get the equipment back in the right places.

 

Conversely, trying to export from Europe or from the US. We’re seeing much higher rates because there’s a lack of capacity and a real demand for liner and equipment. So that’s proven a challenge. So it depends where your ship has been from and to, based on the allocation and relocation of liner and equipment.

 

TN: Okay. It is interesting from your perspective to see China’s actually back online.  We’re actually seeing the physical goods coming and you’re seeing the volumes come in. I think that’s very interesting.

 

So what is the biggest kind of concern that your clients have right now in terms of logistics and some supply chains? What do you hear from them as their biggest concern?

 

GB: Yeah. I mean, a lot of our clients are tied to oil and gas. They operate as a squeeze-in. And as it squeezes, it comes all the way down. And I always say the fate of logistics is at the end of the food chain.

 

We get the squeeze all the way down. Some of our clients are being asked to take 40 percent reductions in the rates. And now squeezing that back down to all that supply.

 

At times in, well, of course, we want to work with you. But we’re also presented with air freight that is 10 times what used to be. It’s proven very challenging commercially for our customers, and for us to keep those relationships. They want to continue to be a partner at a time when they want us to share the bin with the promise of sharing the prize when it comes back.

 

But the oil and gas industry, as you know, has been depleted since 2015. So we’ve all been sharing the bin for a long time. So there’s not much left in the market for starters being distribution goes.

 

TN: OK. And George, I don’t know if you can answer this question, but how long do you expect this to last? What do you expect, what do your clients expect? Are they expecting this next month or two months or six months or a couple of weeks? How long do you think this will last in the US?

 

GB: Yeah, I think China’s a good indicator of the length of time they needed to end it and start to come out of it. So we have been planning for the same length, 120 days.

 

I mean, based on the president’s comments yesterday, it seems like there’s a real bullish approach to not going into this too long. I don’t know if that’s keeping with health advisory or not. But it seems that America wants to get back to business sooner rather than later.

 

I think we’ll see that big spike as we have this past week and this week as people try and get product moving before very they put it in shutdown. And then we’ll see the wall. And then there’ll be a backlog and people will start and try and get goods moving again.

 

So we were making our plans 90 to 120 days. And we’re hopeful, obviously, that it comes back.

 

But, our industry has also led the charge in health and safety, so we’ve been talking about our safety language for many years, even decades. And this is a time to prove that we care for our people, care for our supply chains and for our communities.

 

And we’re thinking very much the safety of our employees at our every week touch points, literally and figuratively speaking. Even four weeks ago, we had a memo out to our staff saying to be ready to work from home. And that this is coming. And we saw it coming because we were in daily contact with our partners in China and Italy and in Europe. So we could see what was happening there.

 

So, and we’ve been preparing for this. We operate from the cloud. So a lot of our people are operating from home. I’ve got so much scale and staff, and we rehearsed it.

 

TN: Fantastic. George, thanks very much. Thanks for your time. I really appreciate it.

 

If any of the viewers have questions, leave me comments or send us an email at Complete Intelligence. Thanks very much.

Categories
Podcasts

Could COVID-19 Finally Kill the EU?

The fallout from COVID-19 might result in the disintegration of the European Union while the flight to safe havens like the USD is yet another headache for the financial markets to stomach, according to Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence.

Produced by: Michael Gong

Presented by: Roshan Kanesan, Noelle Lim, Khoo Hsu Chuang

 

Listen to the podcast in BFM: The Business Station

 

Show Notes:

 

BFM: So for more on global markets right now, we speak to Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Welcome to the show, Tony. Now U.S. markets closed down sharply again last night, erasing all gains from the time President Trump was elected. So what’s your outlook for markets? Is it still too early to buy?

 

TN: Gosh I don’t know. Actually, we don’t really know if it’s a really good time to buy. At this point, it’s really hard to catch that kind of falling knife. But what we don’t see is a V-shaped recovery. We think we’re in the zone where the fall may start slowing down. But we believe the equity markets will trade in a pretty low range for the next couple of months. And that’s because we’re not really sure of the economic impact of the slowdown in the West.

 

This COVID-19 is a government-driven recession that countries have lawfully gone into. So a lot of the recovery has been how quickly the fiscal stimulus is put into the hands of consumers and companies, and how quickly those individuals will get back to work.

 

 

BFM: Well, oil continues to fall last night to record lows with the Brent at $26 per barrel. What’s your view on oil? I know you are seeing the stock market. We do not know where the bottom is. But for oil, are we hitting the bottom yet?

 

TN: We may not be, but we’re pretty close. Our view is that crude will bounce once the Saudi-Russia price standoff is resolved. So we actually see crude moving back into the 40s in April.

 

But after that, we expect a gradual fall back into the low 40s to the high 30s in May. So, you know, we’ll see the next several months’ prices will be depressed. And we think it’s going to be quite a while before we see oil at 50 bucks again.

 

 

BFM: Yeah, Tony, you would have seen the stock futures point in green, obviously quite buoyed by the ECB’s whatever-it-takes policy. In Asia this week, four central banks are meeting. I’d like to go off a piece of possible talk about Australia, Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia. Our central banks are expected to meet this week. What do you expect them to do in terms of responding to the market turmoil?

 

TN: So it can’t just be central banks. I think central banks will do whatever it takes. But you really have to get finance ministries involved because, again, this is a government-induced recession.

 

Governments have demanded that people stay at home due to COVID-19. They’ve demanded that places of business close. And so until finance ministries and treasury departments get involved to get money in the hands of consumers and companies, we’re in a pretty rough place and there’s a lot of uncertainty.

 

So I think the central bank activity is fine. But I think getting a fiscal stimulus out there right now and not waiting is what they need to do. The US is talking about doing something in mid-April, that is just not good enough.

 

We have to get fiscal stimulus out right now because the governments have brought this on. The markets did not bring this on. The governments brought this recession on.

 

 

BFM: Yeah, Tony, obviously the helicopter money is going beyond the conceptual stage right now. But from a fiscal standpoint, how many central banks in Asia can afford, you know, the financial headroom to pay these helicopter money solutions?

 

TN: Well, whether they can afford it and whether they need to afford it are two different questions. And so I think we have real issues with a very expensive U.S. dollar right now.

 

Dollar strength continues to pound emerging market currencies. And emerging markets and middle-income markets may have to print money in order to get funds in the hands of consumers and companies.

 

So I think you have a dollar where appreciation continues to force the dollar strength. And you also have middle income and emerging market countries who may have to turn on printing presses to get money into the hands of consumers. So I think for middle income and emerging markets, it’s a really tough situation right now. The dollar, I think, is both a blessing and a curse for the U.S. But the U.S. Treasury and the Fed have to work very hard to produce the strength of the dollar.

 

There is a global shortage of dollars, partly because it’s a safety currency, partly because of the debt that’s been accumulated in U.S. dollars outside of the U.S.. And if those two things could be alleviated, it would weaken the dollar a bit. But the Treasury and the Fed are going to have to take some drastic measures to weaken the dollar.

 

 

BFM: Well, how much higher do you think the green buck can go?

 

TN: It can be pretty high. I mean, look, it depends on how panicked people get. And it depends on how drastic, I’d say, money supply creation is in other markets.

 

I think there are real questions in my mind about an environment like this and around the viability of the euro. The EU is in a very difficult place. I’m not convinced that they can control the outbreak. I think they have a very difficult demographic position. And I don’t think Europe within the EU, have the fiscal ability to stimulate like it is needed. The ECB cannot with monetary policy, wave a magic wand and stimulate Europe.

 

There has to be fiscal policy, and the individual finance ministries in every single EU country cannot coordinate to the point needed to get money into the hands of companies and individuals. So I think Europe and Japan, actually, have the most difficult times, but Europe has, the toughest hole to get out of economically.

 

 

BFM: It really sounds like Europe has its work cut out for it at this point. What do you think? What could we see coming out of Europe in terms of any fiscal policy? Or will this pressure the EU, put more pressure on the EU?

 

TN: ECB doesn’t really have the mandate for fiscal policy, so they would have to be granted special powers to develop fiscal policy solutions. It has to be national finance ministries in Europe that develops that.

 

So the ECB can backup as many dump trucks as it wants, but it just doesn’t have the power for fiscal policy. So, again, our view is that there is a possibility that the Euro and the EU actually break up in the wake of COVID-19.

 

This is not getting enough attention. But the institutional weakness in Europe and the weakness of the banking sector in Europe is a massive problem and nobody is really paying attention to it.

 

 

BFM: Do you think this has been a long time coming?

 

TN: Oh, yeah. I mean, look, we’re paying for the sins of the last 20 years right now. And for Asia, you know, Asian countries and Asian consumers and companies have taken on a huge amount of debt over the past 20 years to fund the quote unquote, “Asian Century.” And I think a lot of Asian governments and countries will be paying the price over the next six months. The same is true in Europe. But the institutions there are very, very weak.

 

The U.S., of course, has similar problems, not because the U.S. dollar is so dominant, the U.S. can paper over some of those sins, although those problems are coming from the U.S. as well.

 

So, again, what we need to think about is this: The people who are the most affected by COVID-19 are older people. Those people are no longer in the workforce generally, and they’re no longer large consumers, generally.

 

OK. So all of the workforce is being sidelined or has been sidelined in Asia, is being sidelined in the West now, and consumption is being delayed for a portion of the population that is no longer consuming and is no longer working.

 

And so getting the fiscal stimulus out is important because those people who are contributing to the economy can’t do anything, right?

 

So and this isn’t to say we’re not caring about the older populations. Of course, we all are. But it’s a little bit awkward that the beneficiaries of this economic displacement are largely people who are not contributing to economies anymore.

 

 

BFM: All right. Tony, thank you so much for joining us on the line this morning. That was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence.

 

Listen to the podcast on COVID-19 in BFM: The Business Station