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The Dow – Exxon out, Salesforce in

Dow Jones index booted out energy giant ExxonMobil and replaced it with Salesforce. What does it mean to the world economy? Will Tesla be added to the S&P 500 next? The Phase One deal trade went smoothly between China and the US — will conflict like in tech be resolved? And with the recent optimism on COVID-19 vaccines, will transport and hospitality recover and how soon? Our CEO and founder Tony Nash joins the BFM 89.9 team in Malaysia to share his outlooks on these issues and more on the global economy.

 

This podcast first appeared and originally published at https://www.bfm.my/podcast/morning-run/market-watch/the-dow-exxon-out-salesforce-in on August 26, 2020.

 

BFM Description

 

Phase 1 US-China trade discussions, Salesforce displaces Exxon in the Dow Jones, Tesla’s fundamentals, and is it time to buy airlines? Tony also gets into his expectations from the Federal Reserve out of Jackson Hole this week.

 

Produced by: Mike Gong

 

Presented by: Roshan Kanesan, Noelle Lim

 

Show Notes

 

Noelle: The S&P 500 and the NASDAQ notched fresh highs. Facebook rallied after unveiling a series of tools designed to expand shopping on its social media platforms.

 

Roshan: The S&P was up 4%, The Nasdaq was up 0.8%. Only the Dow was down. It was down 0.2% and that’s the first day decline for the first time in four days. We take a look at Facebook was up a 3.5% actually overnight in Asia. The Nikkei was up 1.4%, Shanghai was down 0.4%,. Hong Kong was 1.3% and Singapore was up 0.8%. Malaysia, on the other hand, closed down 0.9% yesterday. So let’s take a look at how it open up later today.

 

But right now, we’re taking a look at global markets with Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Tony, thanks for taking the time to speak with us this morning. Discussions between the U.S. and China on their Phase One Deal, a trade deal went smoothly even as other tensions cement in the background. Is this a sign that other disputes, such as the tech conflict, can be worked out between the two nations?

 

Tony: I’m not necessarily sure it means the tech conflict can be worked out. I think it’s possible, but I think it’s more of a sign of the floods that happened in China and the ag supply needs that China has as a result of flooded crop land in China over the summer. There’s been something like $21 billion of economic damage done as a result of the floods. If you look at China’s commitments for US corn, soybeans, soy was up last week. They’re all up more than 100% on last year.

 

Noelle: Looking at the markets, Dow Jones Industrial Average, Exxon was booted out. Is this the beginning of the end for big oil majors or will energy companies catch a second wind as demand recovers?

 

Tony: I live in the town where ExxonMobil is headquartered, and I just don’t see an environment where ExxonMobil necessarily comes back into things like the Dow. Crude oil for the rest of the year, we see it, gradually grinding higher. In 2021, we see some supply issues which would push prices higher. But we’re not necessarily seeing equities like ExxonMobil all that appealing. ExxonMobil’s equity performance over the last four or five years has been terrible. You can’t really blame the Dow and the S&P for booting them out.

 

Roshan: Tony, let’s take a look at the whole replaced Exxon on the Dow Jones — Salesforce. Their stock rose about 3.5% overnight. Now, what’s your outlook on Salesforce?

 

Tony: Salesforce is a very interesting company. There are some client concerns about cost and kind of the necessity of sticking with Salesforce for so many activities. But I think as a shareholder, it’s positive. And the capability that Salesforce has is very good. So it seems like an appropriate add to the index.

 

Noelle: Do you think Tesla is likely to be added to the S&P 500?

 

Tony: It’s possible. I was just looking at the the PE ratio for Tesla. It’s over a thousand. It’s 1,047. You’re typically looking at maybe 15 to 20 or something like that, maybe expanding a bit more. It’s 1,047. Is it possible that Tesla started? Yes, but I think the volatility risk there is quite high. Just since August 11th, Tesla has gained about $700 per share. I think it’s great when it rises. Will it fall? I don’t know. I’m not necessarily calling that. But the volatility risk there is quite high for these indexes that like to be pretty stable industrial gauges.

 

Roshan: I think with those gains, no one wants to bet against Tesla at this point and or even chart the stock at this point. That’s why we’re talking about transport. This sort of airline shares seem to be trending upwards on the last few days based on news positive news around COVID-19 vaccines and treatments. But is it too early to be bullish in the transport sector?

 

Tony: It depends on how bullish you are. I see people saying that within four to six to eight months, there’s an expectation that things will be closer to normal. And I think part of the bullishness is people wanting to get in. There is not necessarily belief that monetary policy like central banks will reel in and will reduce their balance sheet. With this much money in the system and potentially more, it’s possible that, airlines might be something interesting as we get closer to normalization. Assuming that happens, I’m positive about that. Business in the States is slowly normalizing. Kids are slowly going back to school. The normal school year starts about this time. In some states like where I live, kids are going back to physical school, which is kind of a big change from the last six months. So we’re slowly starting to see normalization. And I’m optimistic about things like travel and hospitality.

 

Noelle: All eyes will probably be on what the Fed will cover on Thursday. What do you expect to be in their statements?

 

Tony: I hate to say this because everyone says that we’re kind of in uncharted territory. Right? It’s very cliche by now, but we are in danger of the US economy slowing. We’ve seen some of the initial excitement we saw in July and early August start to slow with jobs. The jobs numbers last week were over a million again. And so I think the Fed is worried because employment is one of their mandates.

 

We may see additional aggressive intervention by the Fed to make sure that the economy continues to come back. I think they have to be careful because it is an election year and they don’t want to be seen as being political. But I think the economic reality is that they have to. I think both the Fed and the Treasury, there are programs in the States like the Paycheck Protection Program, which helps small businesses get through the worst days of kind of COVID and that’s run out. And I think a lot of small businesses are really in trouble now because we haven’t seen things normalized. I think the Fed will come back with a bit more. I think the Treasury, once Congress is back in session, Treasury will come back with a bit more as well, support for individuals and for small businesses.

 

Roshan: All right, Tony, thank you so much for your time this morning. That was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence, giving us his view on the inclusion of a Salesforce into the Dow Jones, among other things. Interesting times. I mean, Exxon, I think the Dow Jones is a price weighted index. So it does work differently from the S&P 500. But it is a milestone, right? It is. It is something to note the fact that Salesforce also is a very enterprise driven solution.

 

So that’s an interesting addition there. But Tesla. Tesla has been a very interesting stock to watch. I think it was what I was listening to a podcast yesterday about how even the shorts that still used to be a favorite among short sellers. And they’ve just I mean, if you are short seller of Tesla earlier this year, you would be deeply, deeply in the red at this point.

 

Noelle: Yeah. So I think that a lot of questions are whether it should be included in the S&P 500. Granted, the value of his stock has risen really significantly. I think questions about the quality of earnings, whether they can be sustained, you know, if the share price to frothy. So these are some questions that the committee will still need to confront. And I guess like what you know, what Tony’s saying at S&P 500 Committee, they will look for stability, right? They wouldn’t want to keep kicking out the stock in and out. So, yeah. So maybe, OK, set up. The Tesla may not be added.

 

Roshan: And of course, we’re all paying attention to what’s going to happen in Jackson Hole this weekend on the virtual Jackson Hole.

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Podcasts

Dollar stays soft till year end

Tony Nash joins BFM 89.9 The Business Station for another discussion on the global markets — particularly the growing US market amidst the weakening dollar. Why is that? Is it about the vaccine optimisim, the 2020 US election, or the pending unemployment benefits? What about gold’s fast value upgrade — will this continue or is it too vulnerable to handle right now? And Euro is performing impressively against the dollar — should investors dive right in or still be cautious?

 

This podcast first appeared and originally published at https://www.bfm.my/podcast/morning-run/market-watch/dollar-stays-soft-till-year-end on August 6, 2020.

 

BFM Description

Tony Nash, CEO Of Complete Intelligence tells us why markets in US are still hitting new highs while giving us his views on the direction of the US dollar and whether it makes a difference who sits in the White House this November.

 

Produced by: Mike Gong

 

Presented by: Khoo Hsu Chuang, Wong Shou Ning

 

Show Notes

 

BFM: For more insights into global markets, we speak to Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Good morning, Tony. U.S. markets continue to break records. Now, how much of that is driven by vaccine optimism and a potential deal for unemployment benefits?

 

TN: I think there is a deal for unemployment benefits and it will continue to drive consumption. The disposable income that people had — that 600 extra dollars a week — really helped the consumer side of the economy stay afloat for the things that were open.

 

There is an expectation that if something similar passes, that it will help consumption in Q3. However, we see things like manufacturing employment are coming back quite strongly despite the ADP number that was out today. Services is lagging a bit largely because of restaurants and shops and etc., not being open so much. But it is on the expectation of a weakening dollar as well with both equity markets and commodities.

 

BFM: The same euphoria is happening to gold and it’s now something like 2,040 USD an ounce, one of the highest, if not the highest it’s ever been. Is it not vulnerable to a price correction, though?

 

TN: We don’t think it would be by much for some time because a weakening dollar is more reliant on central banks’ monetary policy. It’s likely that commodities will continue to rally. And the dollar has a lot of dedicated bulls. There may be a couple of hiccups before the end of the year, but we don’t see a whole lot slowing it down. Having said that, we don’t see a lot more headway to the upside. There’s some, but we don’t see like another 20 percent gain or something like that. It’s possible, but that’s not within our baseline expectation.

 

BFM: There’s even talk of three thousand dollars an ounce. You don’t think that’s going to happen, obviously?

 

TN: I think that’s possible. But not likely.

 

BFM: Meanwhile, the Euro has strengthened against the US dollar now. So is this, again, the weakening dollar rather than Euro strength? And what does this mean now for investors? Should they be more bullish on the Eurozone?

 

TN: A number of investors are bullish on the Eurozone because many of the countries in Europe are fully back to normal and and they’re doing quite well. So there is optimism about European companies, but it is also related to the weakening dollar. I think one of the other considerations around dollar weakness, whether it’s gold or euro or other things, is the uncertainty around the U.S. election.

 

I think priced into the dollar weakness is the possibility of a Biden win. And there is not a lot of excitement around a Biden economy. If there is clarity of a Trump win, Trump has done some interesting things in the economy and pulling back regulations and other things, it’s possible there will be more dollar strength.

 

BFM: Oil has been trading in a very tight range. API and US crude data showing a fall in inventories. Why isn’t prices rising more then?

 

TN: It’s demand. Yes, the supplies are falling, but the demand, it came back, but it is not continuing to rise as quickly as they had when they first started to open up. And until we start seeing things like flights happening again, business travel, personal travel, happening again in a big way, we’re not really going to see things like jet fuel consumption come back. That’s really where a lot of the growth is.

 

A lot of Americans are driving more in cars because things like mass transit… So I’m in suburban Houston, Texas. Right next to my office is a very large car park for commuters into the city. That car park has been closed since February. So the people who want to drive into the city will have to drive their own cars. There really isn’t a mass transit option. So individual consumption has risen because people who want to go to work have to drive themselves. But we don’t have things like jet fuel consumption that have come back anywhere close to where they were in January.

 

BFM: I want to come back to the US dollar. What’s your view on it? You expect it to continue to weaken? And if so, how has that changed your strategic asset allocation?

 

TN: Well, we really just turned. Through July, we expected the dollar to start to rally in October, November. But just in our forecast on Monday and we’re expecting a weakening dollar to the end of the year. So that market has evolved a bit where it’s tough for that asset to come back in value. And part of that is the veracity of the euro strength. We are a bit worried about the dollar value. Again, if we see a Trump win, which is it likely now? I don’t think we really know that. But if we do, we do expect that we’ll see some dollar strength to come back a bit earlier. If it’s a Biden win, we expect the dollar to remain weak, as you know, monetary policy and central bank and QE infinity, those sorts of things, will potentially be part of the economic plan.

 

So we don’t expect a strong dollar rally this year. It would be Q1 before we start to see some real strength in the dollar. We’re not expecting the dollar DXY, for example, to go into the mid 80s or anything like that. But we do expect it to remain weak over the next several months.

 

BFM: Friday sees US non-farm payrolls come out. Are you expecting the numbers to reflect this softening job market?

 

TN: You don’t necessarily see the job market softening. There are a couple of dynamics. As unemployment benefits dry up, people are going to have to start going back to work. So they probably won’t be as rich as they have been for the last few months. So people are going to have to get out and they’re going to have to work a bit more.

 

And we have also seen manufacturing come back pretty strongly. So, for example, one of our clients is an auto parts manufacturer in Michigan in the US. As auto makers pivoted to make ventilators, the auto parts business dried up. So these guys went from 400 workers to like 15 workers, like a dramatic cutback. Over the last three months, as of August, they’ll be back to 100 percent of their workforce working. So they’ve seen literally of the in their workforce utilization.

 

And we’ve spoken to a number of people who that’s what they’re seeing, and this is particularly on the manufacturing side, where they cut back dramatically in March, April, May. And since then, they’ve really started to build up pretty rapidly, given the extent of the cuts that they had to make in Q2.

 

BFM: All right. Thank you for your time. That was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence, highlighting about the U.S. dollar rate. He expects it to remain soft until maybe when you’re recovering in the first quarter. And of course, that is also dependent on who might actually win or might be in the White House come November.

 

So let me bring this to the walking. And according to the Financial Times, Joe Biden is, you know, head and shoulders above Donald Trump in terms of the polls, which means in three months time Mr. Orangeman will be out of the White House. No more orange in the White House.

 

Yeah, but did you see those tweets that Donald Trump is trying to do to delay the elections?

 

Well, he has been questioning whether they are going to be reliable in the first place, right?

 

Yes. Well, we’ll be watching the space. I mean, it’s less than 100 days to the US presidential elections is going to be interesting times. I just wonder, you know, in the meantime, who’s really managing the United States? Because unfortunately, the COVID-19 cases just seem to get increasingly worse. But let’s hope they actually saw unemployment benefits deal quickly because otherwise the economy will really pay the price for it.

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Podcasts

Gold & Silver, Nature’s Bitcoin

Tony Nash joins BFM Malaysia for another look at the global markets, particularly discussing the “nature’s bitcoin,” which are gold and silver, the US Dollar outlook, if Tesla is a good buy right now, Microsoft, and others.

 

Listen to this podcast at https://www.bfm.my/podcast/morning-run/market-watch/gold-silver-natures-bitcoin

 

BFM Description

 

Tesla and Microsoft results were released last night but which company actually met expectations upon a closer look?

 

Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence helps us dissect the numbers while weighing in on the sharp rise on gold and silver’s which is defying the historical correlation between asset classes.

 

Produced by: Mike Gong
Presented by: Khoo Hsu Chuang, Wong Shou Ning

 

Show Notes

 

BFM: For more thoughts on what’s going on with markets, we speak to Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Good morning, Tony. Now, markets had a choppy day last night, but still closing in the green on optimism of this spending bill and, of course, the vaccine. Now, are investors choosing to ignore the realities of what is clearly a weak, broader economy at their peril?

 

TN: Well, no. I think generally they’re trying to figure out how fast things will come back and when we look at some of the earnings, like Microsoft, they’re really, really good. And when we look at some things, like the rate at which people are coming back, say on the roads and other things, it’s looking positive. So have things got a little bit ahead of themselves? It’s possible, but I don’t necessarily think people are kind of ignoring the issues around COVID and other items.

 

BFM: Just to stay on that point a little bit, Tony. How much money do you think really will be put into the system as a result of this new spending bill? More importantly, Trump talked up, and I think allocated about two billion dollars to Pfizer for the COVID vaccine. Those two elements there, what kind of numbers in quantums can you throw into the mix here, Tony?

 

TN: I think you’re you’re looking at least at trillions. I don’t think it’ll be as large as the initial spending. I think it’ll be a bit of a tapering of the initial spending. But with the magnitude of spending to join with Pfizer and other vaccine manufacturers, they just want to be able to put a cap on this and say, “okay, as of a certain date, right now, it’s expected to be December. We’ll have a vaccine that‘ll put a limit on the risk and we can kind of set all of this stuff aside.”

 

BFM: And Tony, talking about the two bit results that came out last night. So there was Microsoft, which kind of mistreat, but Tesla, which beat. Are you a believer on Buford? Or do you actually have a preference?

 

TN: Tesla announced they’re building a factory in Texas, which is where I sit. So I’m very excited about it. But on a serious note, Tesla’s positive EPS report happened largely because they sold 428 million dollars of regulatory credits. So they’re not positive because of car sales. They’re positive because of selling regulatory credits. Investors have to look at that reality. Now, the other consideration for Tesla is it’s their fourth consecutive gap profit. So they’re now eligible for S&P 500 including. That may be a factor to pull some demand along for the stock if they are, in fact, put into the S&P 500.

 

BFM: For the benefit of the Tesla day traders. I think that’s nearly half a million of them on Robinhood. Tesla is now worth nearly 300 billion dollars, more than the entire European and American car sectors. Did you think this is a collapse waiting to happen, or do you think this going to be more upside?

 

TN: Do you know what? It’s yes. The problem with that kind of statement is it’s like there’s not even close to trading on fundamentals at Tesla. So the real question is, how excited will people get and when will that taper off? The real problem is wondering how long that excitement will be there because it’s fully sentiment. I mean, anybody who thinks Tesla trades on fundamentals. It’s really what are the expectations for next quarter’s earnings? That’s what Tesla’s trading on now.

 

Plus, a lot of excitement and a lot of Robin hood fiz. It really is sentiment based. When we see that sentiment subside, I think that’s when, I don’t think we can continue north of a three, four, 500 billion dollar valuation for a company like Tesla. As cool as it is, I think it’s very hard to continue with it.

 

BFM: And Tony, talking about things that have gone up, it’s gold and silver. Both precious metals have seen sharp rises in price levels. So what’s the reason behind the focus on these commodities? And the question, again, is this sustainable?

 

TN: Is it sustainable? Gold and silver are kind of nature’s cryptocurrency, right? They really are where sentiment goes if people are skeptical about the dollar or skeptical about risk. We saw the VIX down like two percent today. So we saw gold and silver kind of about even by end of the day. When risk is going down, gold and silver typically aren’t doing great. The dollar will stay weak for the next couple of months. But we do see bit of a dollar strength coming back later in the year. Those aren’t perfectly inverse relationships. But there really is question around what will the Fed do? If the Fed continues to expand the money supply, there is an expectation that more people will flock to gold and silver. I’m just not quite seeing that much left. But it’s possible that there is.

 

BFM: I’m not sure whether your software looks at this necessarily, but it shows for silver that the technical resistance is at 21 dollars an ounce and now it’s gone past that 22 and 3 quarters. They’re talking about twenty five dollars an ounce though. Would you agree with that prognosis?

 

TN: Yeah, we see serious resistance. I mean it’s possible. So we’ll hit 25, but we don’t necessarily see the incentive there for silver to continue to rise. We do see strong resistance at these levels. And it’s, you know, from our perspective, it’s fairly risky looking at those at the moment.

 

BFM: And Tony going back to the U.S. dollar, right? I mean, we are seeing weakness now. But you say you have expectations of it recovering towards the end of the year. What is that premise on, though?

 

TN: When the Fed and the Treasury slow down, when we start to see stability around COVID. Things like ICU beds in East Texas, there’s so much more availability. That’s like 20 percent more availability this week than there were last week. When we start to see more stability around what’s actually causing the risk in markets and there’s less of a need for the Fed and the Treasury to intervene, then we see stability in money supply.

 

And as the market recovers, we start to see or we would expect to see more velocity of the U.S. dollars. That’s kind of how quickly do people spend it, right? If we see stability in the money supply and more velocity in American spending, then that could be dollar strength. If there’s instability in, say, emerging markets or Europe or something like that, if the finance ministers could ever get it together in Europe, we’d see more strength in the Euro.

 

But there’s disharmony there and there are questions in some emerging markets. So if we see stability and velocity rise in the U.S., then we could see more investment come from overseas into the U.S., which would accelerate Dollars. We don’t necessarily expect strong dollar strength for a turn before the end of the year, but we do expect moderate dollar strength to come in before the end of the year.

 

BFM: All right. Thank you for your time, Tony. That was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence, saying that Tesla looks like something very scary at this moment, right? It looks like the stock, at six hundred times P is extremely, I would say quite expensive. I mean, you would never think that a company that isn’t it only makes less than thousand cars could be valued at six hundred times.

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Podcasts

Mo’ Money, Mo’ Honey

Tony Nash speaks with the BFM team in Malaysia to explain what’s going on in the US markets and economy after the FOMC announcement. What it means for gold and other assets, if businesses actually spend the excess cash for capital reinvestment, how this adds to wealth inequality in America, and how do tech stocks and traditional stocks compare?

 

BFM Notes

 

In the US, the FOMC left interest rates unchanged, pledging to continue with their quantitative easing till 2022, indicating that America’s markets will continue soaring on the back of this wall of cheap liquidity.

 

Tony Nash, the CEO of Complete Intelligence in Texas, discusses the implications of what commentators are calling the Fed’s ‘yield curve control’ policy.

 

Produced by: Michael Gong

Presented by: Roshan Kanesan, Noelle Lim, Khoo Hsu Chuang

 

Listen to this podcast in BFM: The Business Station.

 

Show Notes

 

BFM: Let’s talk about the markets in the U.S. Markets whipsawed as all attention was on the FOMC meeting. The Dow closed down one percent. The S&P 500 closed down 0.5 percent. But the Nasdaq closed up in the green. 0.7 percent. What about Asia? Asia was rather mixed. The Shanghai Composite ended down 0.4 percent. The Hang Seng was marginally down by 0.03 percent. The Nikkei 225, I think they closed up about 0.2 percent. And FBM was up 0.01 percent. Just barely in the green — 0.01 percent. Now for more on global markets, we speak to Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Tony, are you down the line with us?

 

TN: Yes, sir. Morning.

 

BFM: Good morning to you. Now, the FOMC left interest rates unchanged of the meeting, pledging to continue with quantitative easing till 2022. What does this tell you about the state of the economy there?

 

TN: The Fed is really just trying to create stability. We see them, like you said, the next three years, they’ll keep them the same. We think that they’ll just reinforce some of the policies they’ve already put in place. One of the areas we see them focusing on is on yield curve control, although that’s not explicit. We really see that as an area that they’re moving in to encourage capital investment.

 

We’ve really seen capital investment fall here in the States, especially since the COVID time. Oil and gas companies have trimmed billions of dollars of capital investment, for example. So if they can have low-cost borrowing through a yield curve control, it could help that.

 

BFM: What are the implications of doing this? Yield curve control that, for example, on gold?

 

TN: The environment generally with both QE, which is meant to provide liquidity, and yield curve control, which is meant to provide low interest rates, what that does is it really pushes the Dollar down. Although it’s not perfectly inverse, there is generally inverse relationship between the Dollar and gold. So if it’s intended to push the value of the Dollar down, one would expect gold to rise.

 

BFM: Tony, yield curve control can also be called money printing, which has been happening for the last ten, twelve years from an evidence shil standpoint. Have corporations actually spend some of that excess cash on capital reinvestment or have they done it in terms of paying dividends to themselves and their shareholders or even worse, share buybacks?

 

TN: Mostly share buybacks. But share buybacks and dividends, one can argue are similar. It’s just a different form of paying back shareholders. So share buybacks have really been made to be evil over the last, say, five, 10 years or something. But it’s really similar to a dividend that it brings value to the investors themselves. So is it a good thing? I don’t necessarily think so, but it is just one form of getting money back to investors.

 

It’s not necessarily helping capital investment. It hasn’t necessarily helped capital investment. And so, you know, looking at things like yield curve control, what we’ve seen is a lot of QE, but we haven’t seen as much yield curve control. So yield curve control could be one way to provide more incentive for capex.

 

BFM: Well, that hasn’t happened clearly. And to what extent do you think that that policy has exacerbated the wealth inequality in the country, in the United States, which some say has manifested themselves in some of these demonstrations you see all over the country?

 

TN: That’s a very complicated question. And we can spend a lot of time on it. So I think whether a yield curve control has done that, I can’t necessarily argue for or against it. Has QE done that? Oh, surely. I mean, QE has definitely contributed to inequality. It’s definitely contributed more to capital concentration itself than overall inequality. Capital is concentrated with the investment class rather than, say, the working class. Although that sounds very Marxist and it didn’t really mean it to sound that way, but it’s really helped to concentrate capital.

 

BFM: Well, let’s take a look at last night. The U.S. markets were mixed overnight. Is this a reality check that the recovery may not be as soon or as sharp as anticipated by investors?

 

TN: The kind of the relief rally we’ve seen over the past few weeks has really been one of really just excitement that COVID is ending and really hopeful that things will open, as well as recognition of the Fed’s activity and the Treasury’s activity of getting trillions of dollars into the economy. As investors realize how slow those openings are going to be and the impact that it will have on Q2 earnings, but potentially Q3 earnings. I think we’ll see some of this enthusiasm fall away. So markets are trying to find that level. What is that level? And because there is so much uncertainty, we don’t really know that level. This is why we’ve expected volatility through Q2 and into Q3 until there’s more clarity about the pace of opening, how that will affect different industries, and the severity of, say, a second wave. And to be honest, whether people really care about the second wave.

 

BFM: Well, NASDAQ has passed ten thousand and valuation is at the highest in the last 15 years. Where do you think tech stocks will go from here?

 

TN: It really all depends on how companies focus on things like productivity. If we continue to see layoffs and unemployment, companies may decide to invest in technology. We may see some real broad-based investment in productivity like we did twenty five to 20 years ago when companies really started to invest in computing and Internet and all these other productivity shows, it’s quite possible that we see that across large companies.

 

It’s really questionable. Have we expanded valuations as far as we can or is there further expansion there?

 

BFM: Just following up on that. We’ve seen the market recover in the U.S., but there’s definitely a divergence between how the tech stocks have performed and how the larger S&P 500 has performed. Do you think there’s a lot more room for tech stock? Do you think these two indexes will actually going to diverge at this point?

 

TN: We may see a little bit of divergence, but I don’t see that much divergence. I think there is a lot of synchronization within those indexes. We may see a bit like we saw today, but I don’t think that will continue in a massive way.

 

BFM: So when you mean synchronicity, you mean that they will track each other in a parallel? But there is a gap between something like the NY Fang index and the S&P in general. Is that due to the S&P just being weighted down by other classes of assets there?

 

TN: Sure, yeah. It’s looking at traditional businesses that have physical assets and a lot of legacy employees and retirement commitments. These sorts of things really weight down old traditional businesses. The Fang’s, for example, they don’t have a huge retirement commitments than, say, a large manufacturer that’s maybe a 100 years old has. As those things play through and this really has to do with the aging of baby boomers, really. Those retirement commitments will age with them and then they’ll phase out eventually.

 

But a lot of this is around again, those companies are not as efficient as they could be. And until they get to a level of efficiency that they need, we’re gonna see a drag on their earnings. So, of course, with guys like the Fang’s, since they have kind of virtual software related businesses, they will have valuations that are much more generous than traditional, say S&P 500 businesses.

 

BFM: All right, Tony. Thank you so much for your time this morning. That was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence.

I think just ending that point is how this divergence between traditional industries and tech industries had been even more highlighted by what we’ve seen.

Yeah, I think that’s really quite concerning because the alternative point of view is that of the Fed’s money printing policy, which has really accelerated exponentially the last three months. There really is no indication from Trump, from Jay Powell, that he has an exit strategy in mind or has any exit strategy at all. Because how do you unwind this much? You basically dopamine the markets without having some kind of pain. It’s very clear, I mean, even though he was quite tempered in his response, this inequality has been really exec-abated for the last 10 years.

 

Categories
Podcasts

How long can the bull run?

Now that the bull run has started, Tony Nash CEO and Founder of Complete Intelligence joins BFM 89.9 in another global markets discussion. What’s behind this rally and will it be sustained? They also discuss OPEC, the Brent price and its future, Europe’s fiscal stimulus, the ECB, and the resumption of trade war between the U.S. and China.

 

Listen to the podcast on BFM: The Business Station.

 

BFM Description:

On the back of an emerging bull run in Asia and the U.S., we reach out to Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence, for his thoughts on whether or not this momentum can be maintained, oil prices, as well as the ECB’s bond purchase programme.

 

Produced by: Michael Gong

 

Presented by: Wong Shou Ning, Lyn Mak

 

 

Show Notes

 

 

BFM: U.S. stocks extended their rally into the eighth straight day as investors clung to optimism for quick recovery from the pandemic. So the Dow Jones closed up 2.1 percent. The S&P 500 closed up 1.8 percent, and NASDAQ was up 0.8 percent. In fact, NASDAQ in the intraday trading did touch an all-time high. It’s as if COVID-19 never happened.

 

Meanwhile, Asia also had a very good run. Nikkei 225 closed at 1.3 percent. Shanghai was barely up, though. It was flat at 0.1 percent. Hang Seng was up 1.4 percent. Singapore was the big surprise here. We talked about it yesterday. The banking stocks were up and this caused the Straits Times Index to go up by 3.4 percent. Meanwhile, on the FBMKLCI, our market was up 2.1 percent. Also on the back of banking stocks, public bank RHP saw almost a pulping double-digit gains.

 

Pandemic? What pandemic? Never happened.

 

So this morning, for more insight into global markets, we have on the line with us Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Thanks very much for joining us this morning, Tony.

 

Now, equities have recently exhibited strong bullish momentum in both Asia and the U.S.. What’s behind this rally? And is it sustainable?

 

TN: I think a lot of it is the monetary policy expectations and the stimulus expectations washing through. It’s a lot of hope around activity in the summer, say, for crude prices, driving and consumption. There’s an expectation that there’s been some pent up consumption because of COVID. Some of this is coming back. It’s key to know that the U.S. markets are still 10 percent below where they were pre-COVID, 10 percent or more. So it’s not completely as if things never happened, but it has come back relatively quickly. The S&P, for example, was at around 2300. So we’ve climbed about 700 points in the S&P 500 since the nadir of COVID.

 

BFM: I always ask our commentators this, and I’m going to ask you also. Why the disconnect between what is happening on Main Street versus what’s happening on Wall Street.

 

TN: There’s an expectation that most publicly traded companies are going to pack as much bad news into Q2 as possible. And so they’re just throwing the kitchen sink into Q2. So that should mean pretty clear sailing for the rest of the year, assuming that it is 2020 and all. So anything can happen. But assuming that there isn’t another major catastrophe, things should be pretty clear for the rest of the year if every- and anything that could go wrong goes into Q2 data.

 

BFM: Brent has also erased some of its recent gains and is back below the $40 a barrel mark with the OPEC meeting now in doubt. What do you think oil prices will be heading?

 

TN: Our view is that things have been pretty range traded. We don’t see things going up to, say, $50 anytime soon. It’s possible. But we’ve expected things to stay pretty range traded until probably August or so.

 

We’re going to see daily rises and we’re going to see falls. But prices have come back a little bit on some drawdowns we’ve seen in storage and expectations around driving. Although, It’s not a perfect substitution for flying. And those volumes will still be down until we start to see people get back on planes. And until we start to see commuters back on their daily drives, we really don’t expect to see things come back above, say, $50 for Brent.

 

BFM: Shifting to Europe. The ECB is expected to expand its bond repurchase program this Thursday. So they’ve got a currency 750 billion euros outlay. Is that enough or do you think they need to increase it?

 

TN: It’s not enough. But I don’t know that Europe really has the financial wherewithal to do much more. They are not a fiscal union. And so they’re really having to contort their mandate to make sure that they can do this. This is really pushing Europe and the ECB and the concept of a quasi-fiscal union under the E.U. is putting real pressure on that.

 

So the limits of the monetary, not fiscal union are really pressed. And when you look at things like the insolvencies we saw in Greece and Italy and other places in southern Europe over the last 10 years, places like Germany are just tired of fiscal stimulus of other countries in the EU.

 

BFM: And if you look at the equity markets in Europe, that’s been also the lag out. Do you think there’s any opportunities there or is it a similar situation whereby the corporates there are going to not perform up to par?

 

TN: No, we don’t think they’ll perform up to par. Until we see countries beyond Germany really lift some of these lockdowns in a big way, it’s going to be really slow going. It’s strange how we’ve seen these protests really go against the lockdown. We may actually see some of these countries rip the Band-Aid off, because if you have tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of protesters out there, it may be a situation where you can just say, “Well, lockdown’s over,” and you may start to see consumption patterns come back to normal. That would be a good thing for markets. That would be a good thing for companies. But European companies, especially European banks, remain troubled. And I think this crisis has really forced those banks to look in the mirror. And if markets are functioning well, then we’ll start to see some consequences, particularly for European banks.

 

BFM: Thank you very much for speaking with us this morning, Tony. And that was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence.

 

He made some comments there about Brent crude, which he doesn’t really expect to come above the fifty dollars per barrel mark until perhaps we see planes start flying again. But the Trump administration has just made an announcement to that effect, saying that they are suspending passenger flights to the U.S. by Chinese airlines effective June 16th.

 

So the U.S. government said in a statement that it was responding to the failure of the Chinese government to allow U.S. carriers to fly to and from China. Now, this hasn’t, of course, been good for the tensions that have already been flaring between the two countries over the handling of COVID-19, as well as the treatment of Hong Kong.

 

China recently paused some agriculture imports after Trump threatened to limit the policy exemptions that allow America to treat Hong Kong differently than the mainland.

 

And that was done. The global economy was cheering and it looks like they’ve started fighting again. I think I’m just curious, what else is there to fight over? Because there’s been soybeans, beef, pork imports, corn, and now airlines.

 

U.S. airlines did see a bit of a share surge amidst the broader market rally and signs that travel demand is starting to rebound. Boeing was up 13 percent at one point after a report from IATA indicated that recovery was underway for global airlines.

 

So looks like we’re going to be watching that space as well, quite closely.