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How to Make Cloud Pricing More Transparent

This article on “How to Make Cloud Pricing More Transparent” is originally published at https://www.eweek.com/cloud/how-to-make-cloud-pricing-more-transparent

 

eWEEK CLOUD PERSPECTIVE: It used to be nearly impossible to compare cloud costs because different providers typically have their own nomenclature for cloud features, define services differently and offer different tiers of services that don’t line up with one another. Forget apple-to-apple comparisons, cloud price bake-offs were more like contrasting apples to peach cobblers. But help is here.

 

Cloud has inspired almost as much evangelical fervor as open source computing, particularly in the heady 2000s. The advent of cloud computing seemed to render traditional enterprise software vendors as out-of-date as telegraph operators. The monolithic process of releasing software every 18 months wasn’t fast enough for business, running your own servers became as fashionable as generating your own electricity, and the expense involved restricted technology access to the wealthiest businesses.

 

Cloud computing represented a true democratization of enterprise IT, allowing small companies to compete with bigger rivals without breaking the bank to buy servers, storage and software. Tens of millions of dollars for the right to walk onto the playing field were no longer required.

 

The other promise of cloud computing was of a more transparent and equitable business model.

 

In one of my first interviews as an IT reporter, in 2003, I asked the chief technology officer of a large health IT organization to define enterprise software. “It’s when they can’t tell you the price of the software upfront,” he said.

 

Sure, this lack of transparency reflected the complexity of the forecasting applications on offer, but also showed that the dominant sales model gave more power to vendors than customers.

 

The emergence of profitable cloud-native businesses both threatened existing business models and inspired business transformation. The agility and innovation made possible by cloud computing inspired many businesses to move their IT stacks from their own server rooms or data centers to the cloud.

 

 

The law of universal gravitation as applied to the cloud

 

By 2020, however, the low-hanging fruit has been picked. Businesses have reaped the benefits of relatively lower costs and more frequent innovation. And with the lion’s share of IT spending at most companies moving into the cloud, cost – and cost transparency – matters. Yet, the transparency promised by the cloud revolution has largely failed to materialize.

 

As was the case with the previous generation of technology, obfuscation isn’t a bug, it’s a feature, and it begins with Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation. Pricing structures at legacy cloud providers punish moving data from one cloud to another. By intentionally making the cost of putting data into their clouds as low as possible, while making it prohibitively expensive to move data out to interact with systems in different clouds—a concept known as data gravity—they are walling in their customers.  This is an explicit strategy to make their clouds “sticky” and keep forecasting applications from moving to other clouds.

 

But the reality is that businesses want and need to operate in different cloud environments for many reasons. Not to mention, who wouldn’t want to cut 10, 30, or even 80 percent of cloud costs if possible?

 

 

 

Newton’s law of motion applied to the cloud

 

It used to be nearly impossible to compare cloud costs because different providers typically have their own nomenclature for cloud features, define services differently and offer different tiers of services that don’t line up with one another. Forget apple-to-apple comparisons, cloud price bake-offs were more like contrasting apples to peach cobblers.

 

There is help available. For one example, Oracle Cloud Workload Cost Estimator is a new tool now available for obtaining empirical cost information. It lets customers assess comparative costs of Oracle Cloud Infrastructure and Amazon Web Services in as close to a real apples-to-apples comparison as possible.

 

The calculator prices not only computing and storage costs, but that of IOPS (data input/output per second), and data transmission out of the cloud as well. That last factor, also known as data egress, is usually a wild card because traditional cloud companies start charging a markup after a given amount of data flows out. So once you hit a monthly target—1GB for AWS, according to the cost estimator—data egress charges kick in. At Oracle the meter doesn’t start until after 10,000 times more data egress—or 10 TB—per month.

 

IT leaders can enter the parameters of proposed workloads and then run their own OCI vs. AWS comparisons. In the end, they may discover that one cloud provider offers services that are closer to Newton’s third law (that for every action in nature, there is an equal and opposite reaction) than to his first

 

 

 

A few examples

 

Cost and performance go hand in hand, especially as software-as-a-service providers rely on third parties to serve their software to customers. Data technology firm Complete Intelligence, for instance, provides real-time risk management and forecasting services for its customers. It needs to know how much it will spend providing that service on an ongoing basis, and also be sure that its customers get the responsive service their businesses need.

 

“For us, it’s the entry cost, but it’s also the running cost for a cloud solution. And so that’s critically important for us. And not all cloud providers are created equally,” said Tony Nash, CEO of the Houston-based company, which picked Oracle Cloud Infrastructure.

 

Another example of how modern businesses use the cloud is data integration provider Naveego. The company helps customers parse data from a myriad of sources. It cleans the data, deletes duplicates, provides a trail of sources, and then provides a clean golden record of data that is ready for analytics in real time.

 

“To do that, we run instances of our product in multiple availability zones. AWS charges for communications back and forth between those availability zones. Oracle doesn’t, and the cost difference ended up being huge for us. So, we decided to move our research and development, and some production, cloud tenancies to Oracle Cloud,” wrote Naveego CEO Katie Horvath in a blog post.

 

The company saved 60 percent on its costs since moving to the Oracle cloud, while being able to do more research and development. “Oracle’s claims that Oracle Cloud Infrastructure is 65 percent more cost effective on computers have also proven to be true for Naveego,” she says.

 

We’re starting a new decade on an awkward footing, and businesses need technology to help make smarter decisions. They may still want to fail fast, but they will also want to know what went wrong fast, what the fast road looks like to the promised land – and at long last, what it costs to get there. They’ve long known the cost of sending a telegram, and they can finally figure out the cost of using the cloud.

 

Michael Hickins is a former eWEEK and Wall Street Journal editor and reporter.

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Visual (Videos)

CNA’s Asia First: Restarting the economy takes a disproportionate amount of resources

Tony Nash, CEO and founder of Complete Intelligence, joins Avril Hong and Adam Bakhtiar of Asia First to share his insights on restarting the economy, Texas’s economy on a lockdown, fiscal stimulus and policy, and if he’s bullish on China. Watch Tony’s segment here and in our Youtube channel.

 

This video is part of a 2-hour live news show at Channel News Asia’s Asia First. CNA is part of Mediacorp. Find the original segment here: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/video-on-demand/asia-first

Show Notes

 

CNA: Tony, the last time we spoke was a couple of months ago. At the time, Houston hadn’t confirmed any cases of coronavirus. Fast forward to today, we’re seeing the biggest daily surge in confirmed cases. 10,000 in the state. Do you still think that it’s not as big an issue for the lockdown for restarting the economy especially for the Sun Belt state as a whole?

 

TN: We’re seeing the the case counts rise. But we’re seeing the death rates stay low and even decline. In terms of markets, I think that’s a good sign. If we saw the case counts rise and the death rate stay consistent or rise, then I’d be very concerned. But we’re seeing the case counts rise and the death rates fall. We’re seeing plenty of capacity in hospitals as we talk to hospital administrators here. Here in Texas, places like Arizona, Florida, what I’m seeing by talking to people in healthcare is that things are okay. Again, what I’m keeping an eye on really is the death rates. And the the death rates as that incidence rises. This is a virus. That’s going to get out. It’s going to grow. It’s going to hit more people. I don’t necessarily think that incidents itself is an issue. We have to look at the fatality rate and how persistent that fatality rate is.

 

CNA: Right. Then if it’s not that big of an issue, then is there less of a need for stimulus whether from the Fed or the government in that sense because we’re hearing from some of these Fed officials, they’re warning that growth has plateaued. It’s kind of leveling out and they are asking for more stimulus. But if it’s not such a big concern these surge in coronavirus cases and its impact on restarting the economy, is there still a need for further stimulus?

 

TN: The problem with stopping an economy or pulling the plug on an economy, which is what governments around the world did, is that restarting it takes a disproportionate amount of resources. So governments around the world pulled the plug, stopped business, stopped socializing, stopped all these things, stopped flights, and it killed the oil and gas sector. It killed the hospitality sector. It killed travel and so on and so forth. In order to restart the economy, it takes a disproportionate amount because there’s inertia in economic activity and so we really have to push it along pretty far so that it gets back to that rate. It’s pretty easy to criticize companies that aren’t performing. Q2 revenues for example, Q2 earnings are going to come in pretty poor. But these guys are doing the best they can given the impacts of governments globally. And here in the US, we see state level and local governments making decisions for businesses to stop. But they’re not the ones who provide the fiscal support. It’s the federal government or the central government that actually provides that support. So there’s a weird misalignment of incentives in the US where it’s local governments forcing companies to close our state governments. But they’re not actually accountable and they’re not paying the consequences of it.

 

CNA: Yeah, so that therein raises this moral dilemma I guess, because whether you’re looking at fiscal or monetary policy support, we see the Fed dipping its toes into corporate bonds, buying Apple bonds, Microsoft bonds for example. Apple stocks up 25% year to date and then in terms of fiscal policy support, sure that pandemic aid program, it has according to the Trump administration, helped to save more than 50 million jobs. But it’s also helped the wealthy and connected.

 

TN: Sure. It has. When you see the the Fed of the Treasury spending on things like Apple bonds, yes it’s for Apple, but I don’t think it’s really for Apple. It’s the wealth effect of markets and getting US consumers back to the point of feeling like they can spend again is a very difficult place to get consumers and so, especially when you look at baby boomers and the spending power they have, they’re looking at their retirement years. If they’re looking at their portfolio being cut dramatically, then they’re going to cut back on their spending really, really dramatically. So the sentiment around markets is important. It’s easy to make fun of. A lot of people mock it. But the fact is baby boomers have to feel comfortable to go out and spend because they’re the biggest age cohort. Actually, those guys and millennials in the US are around the same size. But it’s important for them to spend and that the sentiment around markets, the sentiment around things like real estate values are really, really critical right now.

 

CNA: Right. Okay. Let’s shift focus a bit and talk about the Asian markets. We’ve been seeing that Chinese rally. It seems to have, you know, showing no sense of stopping. Shanghai Composite still closing up about half a percent. Do you still feel bullish on the mainland markets?

 

TN: No. Look, they’re way ahead of what we thought they would hit by year end. Sure, you may see more momentum. You may see more of a run in Chinese markets but we don’t see it based really in any fundamentals, which very few markets are right now. But we don’t really see a lot of room left there even before the end of the year. So, we may see some volatility there. I was working in Beijing in 2015 when markets crashed there before and sadly, we may see something similar now. It all depends on how the central government will then address it and if people will walk away whole. But I have friends who in 2015 lost 30, 40 percent of their wealth in that collapse and so, will we see another one? I don’t necessarily think we will. I want to think that they’ll be more prudent. But all the games that we expected before the end of the year have already been taken off the table in the Shanghai Composite.

 

CNA: Thank you for sharing your time and your thoughts with us. That was Tony Nash, Founder and CEO of Complete Intelligence.

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QuickHit Visual (Videos)

QuickHit: U.S. mining operations and supply chain security

In this QuickHit episode, we are joined by Jerry Mullins the Senior Vice President, Government Affairs and External Relations for the National Mining Association. In this episode we explore U.S. mining operations in the height of the pandemic. We take a look at the industry’s serious concern about supply chain security. We also talked about rare earths and how the U.S. miners are contributing to the global green economy.

 

The National Mining Association is the voice of mining in Washington, D.C. with the administration, with Congress, and different agencies. The focus of the organization is to grow domestic mining in the United States and highlight the most significant and timely issues that impact mining’s ability to safely and sustainably locate, permit, mine, transport and utilize the nation’s vast resources .

 

This is QuickHit’s episode 16. For previous episodes you might have missed, kindly check:

 

The “Great Pause” and the rise of agile startups

“LUV in the Time of COVID”

Proactive companies use data to COVID-proof their supply chains

 

The views and opinions expressed in this QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

 

Show Notes:

 

TN: From your perspective, looking at what happened in mining during COVID and post COVID, what did mining firms see around continuity of operations and the risks there? Also, what did mining clients find with supply chain continuity? That’s a real question and that’s something we saw a lot of issues around as countries like Peru and others just completely shut down.

 

JM: Fortunately, domestic mining in United States was deemed an essential industry, and so it was allowed to continue to operate. That’s really important to recognize. As an industry, it had the ability to absorb the different environment that a pandemic brought on, and companies were allowed to successfully operate. These companies were able to continue to produce the raw materials that were needed for multiple industries across the globe.

 

As far as the effects of other countries and how they were affected, when you think about the global economies that generally slowed down, a lot of folks hit a pause. Economies had to re-calibrate exactly what they were able to do and the best way to do it. The domestic mining in the United States played a real critical role in leadership of showing the nation how to continue to work forward safely and effectively.

 

TN: With the supply chain disruptions and some of the geopolitical issues, there is a real sense in the US that there may be some supply chain security issues around metals and minerals. Can you help us with that? What is the Association doing?

 

JM: That’s an interesting point you bring up about the security issue. Just last month, the National Mining Association conducted a poll and 64% of the respondents said they were concerned about the supply chain dynamics and how reliant the U.S. was on international supplies of different critical minerals.

 

You’ve seen a real zest of excitement and certainly interest in focusing on the ability for U.S. producers to fill that gap and make sure that those critical minerals that are needed can be produced in the United States. [This means] addressing some of the permitting challenges that domestic mining faces and finding ways to more effectively allow for U.S. mining to meet a lot of demand that exists.

 

TN: When you talk about things like permitting and we talk about supply chain risk, one of the big kind of things that flag up is rare earths. Can we talk a little bit about rare earths and understand for the U.S. electronic sector and Department of Defense and others? What are some of the things that you’re thinking about and your observations about rare earths in the U.S. and the exposure to rare earths from other places?

 

JM: Well, certainly the Department of Defense relies on 750,000 tons of minerals each year. That’s for everything from armor for the individual soldier, to armor on a tank, to different requirements for jet engines to telecommunications. When you think about everything from palladium to copper to gold and silver–some rare–some not as rare. But those necessities are real. There’s an opportunity for tremendous growth in the rare earth field in this country. It is really opening up, and that’s something that international investors as well as domestic investors are starting to recognize.

 

TN: One of the other things we hear quite a lot about is the green economy — electric vehicles, battery technology. We hear a lot about those technologies accelerating in other locations and maybe the U.S. has to catch up or there are minerals from other places that the U.S. may or may not produce. How do you see U.S. miners contributing to the green economy and battery technology and electric vehicles and that whole section of the economy?

 

JM: When you talk about battery technology and when you talk about the electrification of the auto fleet, what you’re talking about is copper. And you’re talking about mass needs of copper, mass needs of gold, mass needs of silver, and be able to satisfy the requirements. If you look at the wind technology and the coking steel that’s going to be required, the coking coal for making steel that’s going to be required, these are needed to achieve the goals that have been put out there. The American miner is absolutely part of of that future.

 

TN: Great. Perfect. Jerry, thanks so much for taking your time today. I really appreciate this and I look forward to speaking again as we see all of the supply chain issues with COVID and post-COVID. It’ll be really interesting to reconnect and hear some of your thoughts at that point.

 

JM: Thank you, Tony. I look forward to it.

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Podcasts

Claims, Caution, and China

Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence speaks with BFM 89.9 about the US market rebound, what to expect in the third quarter of 2020, jobless claims and US unemployment, and Hong Kong amid the US-China cold war or trade war.

 

BFM Notes

It’s been an eventful weekend in politics, and all eyes are on whether markets will reflect the renewed uncertainty. We reached out to Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence, to help us break down Federal Reserve chairman Jerome Powell’s comments before the US Senate Banking Committee, data expectations, and what the potential impact of Hong Kong losing its special status might be on emerging market currencies.

 

Produced by: Michael Gong, Roshan Kanesan

Presented by: Noelle Lim, Roshan Kanesan, Lyn Mak

 

Listen to the BFM Podcast here.

 

 

Show Notes

 

BFM: Thanks for joining us, Tony. So now, Jerome Powells made some comments before the Senate Banking Committee pointing towards a cautious rebound in the US economy. But nevertheless, U.S. markets closed in the green on the back of some positive housing data. So could you help shed some light on what’s happening here?

 

TN: Sure. We had the positive housing data. We had a broad tech rally. We also had Boeing like 14 percent today on a test flight on the 737 Max. So it was simply a test flight and it was a successful test flight and Boeing rallied 14 percent. It’s a major component and it has an impact on broad market activity. So there are some good things happening, but certainly low expectations environment.

 

BFM: Do you expect end of quarter rebalancing by funds, would that costs significant market volatility? I mean, could you just give us some thoughts about this?

 

TN: As we’ve said before, we expect volatility to continue through probably mid-August. So we will see some rebalancing and we will see as these investors figure out what the right value is for the assets they’re invested in. So we’ll see some change. We’ll see a lot of people kind of take it in Q2. And Q3 is a brand new quarter, so they’ll wipe the slate clean. We’ve seen a lot of companies dump everything but the kitchen sink into the Q2 earnings. Well, but we expect them to. And so Q3 will be hopefully a whole new world. And and we’ll be approaching something more positive by then.

 

BFM: Right. And Tony, when we look at the every week, we’ve been paying very close attention to the jobless claims numbers, right? What are your expectations of the US Weekly jobless claims numbers this week and June Non-Farm payroll data that’s expected on Thursday or Friday overtime?

 

TN: Well, we saw a huge jump in non-farm payrolls in May of 2.5 million, which was pretty massive. Also, the unemployment rate improved from almost 20 percent to like 13 percent. So, we expect things to improve gradually. We don’t expect the two million, although I hope we do, but we don’t expect that magnitude. But we do expect jobs to continue to accumulate as companies gradually come back. So the initial wave of companies opening up in the US produced a lot of new jobs. But now we’re starting to see that continue, but not necessarily at the same magnitude. But again, if we see 2.5 million or more, that will be a delight, everyone.

 

BFM: So now, Tony, fluctuating crude prices and as well as bankruptcies like Chesapeake Energy make oil stocks seem like a bit of a risky proposition. Shouldn’t investors still be considering energy companies as part of their portfolio?

 

TN: Well, I think you have to do with caution. So we look at things like crude oil inventories in the US reached an all time high of something like 540 million barrels about a week and a half two weeks ago. So there’s plenty in storage. I think if you’re investing in energy companies, whether they’re the developers option companies or service providers or whatever, I think you just have to go in with your eyes open to know that the growth there and the draw down in inventories is not likely to be a quick one.

 

TN: So, again, it’s just you have to understand your own risk profile. You have to understand your own tolerance and then go in. I mean, when you look at something like Chesapeake, that was, it happened. And I don’t think it was a complete surprise. But you also look at BP. They sold off their chemical business to Eneos over the weekend. And so some of these companies are hiving off other businesses so they can focus on their core business.

 

BFM: So, now you know, the latest piece of news where US is going to revoke Hong Kong’s special status. So what do you make of this piece of news in the larger picture of the trade war, the Cold War between China and US?

 

TN: I think it puts Hong Kong… It’s another piece in the puzzle to put Hong Kong in a light that it doesn’t really want to be put in, which is one country, one system. Hong Kong has for the last 20, 30 years, been the special place where you can access China without all the baggage. But what we’ve seen with the security like coming in is if you’re in Hong Kong, you’re also accepting the China baggage, which means you have to self-censor your comments, which means you have to be really careful about everything you do and say. And if you’re an investor, that’s a pretty difficult place to be. And so I think, the announcements in the State Department of not selling this technically sensitive equipment there, it was inevitable.

 

I don’t necessarily think it’s a surprise. I think from the Chinese side, it may have been a surprise. But I think they were kind of deluding themselves if they didn’t expect it. So there is accountability for China’s actions and it’s been as they’ve moved into Hong Kong, there have to have been ramifications and were seeing those, and there will be more. And China will have to understand that if they want the benefits of open, say investment markets, they’re going to have to limit their desire to control a number of aspects around business.

 

BFM: Thank you very much for speaking with us this morning, Tony. That was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence, giving us his insight into global markets.

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QuickHit Visual (Videos)

QuickHit: The “Great Pause” and the rise of agile startups

Vice President for Accelerator Investment Fund for Capital Factory, Bryan Chambers, joins Tony Nash for QuickHit’s 15th episode. In this episode, they discuss the making of agile startups, and how they are amidst an economic recession brought on by the COVID pandemic, energy fallout, and other issues. Chambers also talked about The Great Pause. He sees this as a large contributing factor for the future of startups around the globe.

 

Capital Factory is the center of gravity for entrepreneurs in Texas. They help founders and startups by introducing them to their next investors, their next customers, their next employees. Since 2013, they’ve been the most active VC in the state of Texas, unlocking billions of dollars of new value for startups.

 

The views and opinions expressed in this QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

 

Show Notes

 

TN: How have small, innovative companies been impacted by the various kind of problems we’ve seen over the last four months starting with COVID and then energy fallout? And how are corporates responding to that?

 

BC: The best entrepreneurs I’ve ever had the opportunity to work with generally have two characteristics: they’re incredibly resourceful and they are very emotionally intelligent individuals. Those are the two critical aspects of entrepreneurs that are also going to help them successfully navigate a global pandemic.

 

Everybody’s pretty impacted. The impact is significant. And so much that we’ve applied a formula internally called the COVID Impact Score. We ask everybody: how has COVID impacted this business and where is it going? How is it changing? Few people are positively impacted by it. Most people are negatively impacted by it. A few businesses are just neutrally impacted. But most people fall into that first camp, the negatively impacted.

 

People should be looking in the mirror, thinking very deeply about how do they pivot. How do they capitalize on new opportunities? Regardless of a global pandemic, it’s incredibly hard to build a startup and build a successful organization. This makes it even more difficult, and we’re going to see a lot of companies die faster. But we’ll also see lots of new and exciting innovations be born. We know in the wake of a crisis, major innovation and reform, happen. It’s exciting. But it’s also painful to get there.

 

It’s the Great Pause. The investment community is confused because our minds always say “no” when it comes to making an investment decision or a purchasing decision. It may not the [fault] of the product or service. We don’t know what’s going to happen in our business next month or next quarter and confused minds say “no”.  And I think there’s a lot of “no” right now.

 

TN: That’s what we’re seeing in the commercial environment but I think from the investor side, I yearn for the days of Q3 2019 in terms of investment funding. What a beautiful time it was. And it’s just a 180-degrees from that right now. As an entrepreneur and a startup, it’s an interesting time for us. It’s a matter of reorienting who we are. I know Capital Factory is doing the same thing.  Even big corporates are doing the same thing.

 

That’s what we’re seeing in a lot of the conversations we’re having. Many people aren’t really sure of their short-term priorities, and they just kept moving along. We’re finding opportunities in that, which is great.

 

Figuring out how to respond to that had been a challenge for us. But now that we’ve cracked it, we feel like we’re really moving ahead, and I’m hoping that those entrepreneurs that you guys are working with, that many of them can do that.

 

So part of the next step is what are corporates doing? How are corporates innovating through this? Are they relying on Capital Factory companies or external innovations to figure this out, or are they doing that great pause you’re talking about? Or are they just taking their own inventory in-house? Maybe they are trying to figure out where they’re going?

 

BC: It’s all of the above. Budgets have dried up and confusion still remains. People are scrambling to figure out how to re-prioritize innovation projects. But something so unique is happening in the technology ecosystem, not just in Texas, not just in the nation, but across the world. Innovation cycles are continuously speeding up. They’re getting faster. This only makes Fortune 500 companies more and more susceptible to disruption and more and more uncomfortable.

 

Any major corporation has two strategies: an internal strategy and an external strategy. They must be thinking about both. How do we improve our own processes, our own efficiencies and continue to innovate and iterate better and faster? But we better look outside our four walls, because startups are coming to eat our lunch. They can do it better and faster than they ever have in the history of the world, and it’s happening.

 

New business models and new types of firms will emerge. New firms like Capital Factory and our Innovation Council, the service that we help provide to startups and to our Fortune 500 organizations are going to be more prevalent. It is so fast and furious [at this point in time]. No large corporation can [compete] successfully without help from new types of partners.

 

TN: What we saw initially with COVID, especially, is a wave of fear. Now what we’re starting to see is a wave of humility. We could have done this better. We need to look outside. We need to consider that person inside who had that idea. That initial wave of fear was really two months. People were just reacting and trying to figure out how to survive day-to-day. Now they’re taking stock and looking back so they can figure out what their next step is.

 

How do you see corporates operating with external innovative companies going forward? Do you see more action there? Do you see more interest there? Do you see the return of corporate VC arm in any large company?

 

BC: Corporations need to be great at executing low-cost, low-risk proof-of-concepts in a non-production environment. We’re going to need to do integrations with lots of startups and rapidly test. Then [they will need to] choose the ones that work well and scale with them, if not acquire them, invest in them or support them.

 

The global pandemic has brought that confusion which has brought a temporary pause. But we’re going to see it continue to accelerate, and we’re going to see it accelerate in all areas. Organizations will be be forced to start engaging earlier with startups. We’re going to see more corporate venture capital dollars begin to flow.

 

Big corporations, now for the first time, are turning around thinking, “Oh my gosh, that startup can really compete with us and we´re Microsoft.” That statement is more true now than it ever has been. It’s only that level of innovation that will continue to benefit the agile, resourceful startups.

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QuickHit Visual (Videos)

QuickHit: Proactive companies use data to COVID-proof their supply chains

Supply chain expert and SAP SCM/IBP Architect Odell Smith of My Supply Chain Group joins this week’s QuickHit to talk about how proactive companies will survive, how data helps them decide quickly on supply chain solutions, and what we can do to be better prepared next time. After a quick 5-year stint in engineering, Odell has been doing supply chain technologies for over 30 years. His company does mostly SAP products and advisory services and implementing technologies for the supply chain.

 

Don’t forget to subscribe to our Youtube channel and hit the bell icon to be notified when a new QuickHit goes live. If you missed some of our episodes, here are some of the lastest ones you’ll enjoy watching:

 

Manufacturers are bouncing back, but…

We’re not going to normalize

How do we use up all the corn now?

How ready is the military to face COVID-19 and its challenges?

Oil companies will either shut-in or cut back, layoffs not done yet

 

The views and opinions expressed in this QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

 

Show Notes

 

TN: How are your clients looking at their supply chains? How do they use their data to better understand and plan their supply chains even with all the craziness and volatility? Can you give us an example?

 

OS: Our clients have had a variety of different issues. There are companies that even inside the same company, they’ve had one business unit with a huge spike in demand and another business unit will just drop off. One of our clients is one of the largest beer producers in the world. Their keg business that supports restaurants just evaporated all of a sudden. But their bottled beer just went through the roof.

 

So these companies are trying to see these demand patterns as they come in, but also be able to quickly respond to those. Everybody’s used to the monthly demand patterns. But being able to see such a rapid volatile change in these demand patterns and being able to see that with data in the systems, then being able to simulate how you’re going to respond and make intelligent decisions based on that data, has been a real game-changer. If this had happened 20 years ago, it would have been a much more difficult scenario to recover from.

 

TN: What kind of data are people using to make these decisions? Because we really don’t know what’s coming from the outside. All the governments say macroeconomic data. This hasn’t come in obviously. So how are people taking data in to understand how to adjust their manufacturing patterns?

 

OS: The operation’s focus is about trying to estimate what that demand pattern is going to look like and then be able to adjust from that, if you have a constant supply. But if you have an irregular supply, it’s also a problem.

 

Another huge issue here is we’ve off-shored so much stuff in the last 15 to 20 years. An example is one of our customers that is a large paper supplier. They bring in pulp from other suppliers. Everybody’s familiar with the toilet paper issues that we’ve had. These guys had all kinds of issues come up. They bring in product and then they manufacture that product. As they do that, their supply chains were disrupted by not being able to get their suppliers’ product through the ports. Their port activity was blocked. They knew that was going to be the case, and so they had to redirect some of that stuff that was coming in to run their manufacturing.

 

They also worked proactively with the ports. They knew that the port was going to be closed and they had to redirect that. We put in some cost optimization for them to be able to evaluate simulations to estimate where it looked like the best place to bring this raw material. And then of course, their manufacturing process itself had to change, because there’s a lot more demand now for toilet paper than there was for paper towels.

 

Nobody expected that demand shift. Everybody was unprepared for that. But being able to use data to make smart, intelligent, short-term decisions about how to correct for that new demand was something that they were able to put in place fairly quickly. For scenario planning, we were using SAP IBP to be able to make those right decisions.

 

TN: I started my career in a freight forwarder, customs broker, and all the physical logistics around it. And it was always interesting to me early in my career to see when people had cost-sensitive, time-sensitive, quality-based decisions, and you’re balancing all three. The types of decisions they made sounded like they didn’t really have any history to go by. They were just looking at expectations, and you’re just playing it day-by-day or week-by-week.

 

OS: If you have the tools and you have the data, then you can do that. Now, a lot of this data was manufactured data themselves because it was based on estimates. What are my options here? I’ve got three other ports to use, and there’s different costs of transportation going through those ports, plus there’s a risk. Will I be able to get the stuff processed through and time to be able to make it? And if I don’t, then what’s the downstream impact to me in my subsequent manufacturing process?

 

TN: All to get a roll of toilet paper to your corner store. What would you say manufacturing companies need to be thinking about? How can people be better prepared the next time this happens?

 

OS: One thing that came out of this is that this data is changing so rapidly. [Companies that can] access that data can see what worked, and what didn’t work from the last situation. There are going to be some things when you’re making these snap decisions, and you’re just trying to keep your business afloat. There are going to be some things that you learn in hindsight that were not the best thing to do. As long as you plan for that, and you know that that’s going to be the case, and you review that after the fact, and are prepared for that risk, know where that risk is, then it always helps you be able to respond better next time. If you don’t learn from those things, shame on you.

 

TN: Do most major manufacturing firms today have a good base of data and well-organized data to make some of those decisions? Or is it still kind of iffy?

 

OS: It depends. There are some that have really good data. But it has to be a decision by the company. The company has to decide to put the resources in place and to have that vision, that strategy of knowing that that data is important and that the data needs to be reviewed, audited, and cleansed.

 

Some companies are very proactive. Some companies are completely reactive. And when you get in a situation like this with this craziness, these [reactive] companies won’t make it. Proactive companies will make it. So it’s really a business mindset and putting a value on that data that makes it helpful.

 

TN: These major manufacturers that you work with, I think there’s a perception out there that a manufacturing firm has one ERP system. Do you work with any firms that have kind of one ERP system or are they dealing with half a dozen or more typically?

 

OS: There are companies that have been able to maintain that single ERP situation. But more than not, you wind up with mergers and acquisitions. And these M&A activity is just brutal on IT organizations because very seldom do you acquire somebody who has the very same ERP system and they are on the same version that you’re on. And then, there’s a product rationalization and a customer rationalization that has to take place. Those are all very difficult things to get past.

 

TN: Pointing out, so just people understand. It’s not as if you’re just taking data out, putting it in a big machine and then putting it out the other end to help make a decision. You’re taking data in from a lot of different sources. And you’re making sure that it’s somewhat normalized or understandable in the output. And then those managers within those companies are also seeing data in a number of different formats to make those decisions. So this isn’t linear. This looks more like a bunch of weeds over here and a bunch of mangled tree roots over there and you’re trying to make it as linear as possible. The complexity of these decisions, the complexity of these data, say logistics activities, are just fascinating.

 

So last question here Odell. You’ve seen these companies through the first phase or two phases of this. Do you see these companies back on a path to normalization now? Are there manufacturing and supply chain processes normalizing now?

 

OS: There are some that are beginning to get back on the horse and there are some that are just still severely impacted. Some of our customers are in the pharma industry. They’re just going nuts and they’re going to continue to go nuts for a while. It’s really a mixed bag of things. A lot of our customers manufacture products that are related to home. Everybody has been doing a lot more of that lately. Demands for those have still been really strong even though supply may have been impacted by some of the situations.

 

One of our clients is a company that has multiple legacy systems. One of the great things about these new cloud solutions is the ability to do that normalization, to be able to take data from multiple different ERPs, disparate ERPs, and bring it in for a total view for the executive team to make these quick decisions. A lot of our customers are doing really well, and so it’s great to see them coming out of this. It’s been a slow couple of months for people just to wrap their arms around the thing, and try to just fight fires. And then now we’re coming out of some of that and into recovery mode that looks good and strong.

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QuickHit: We’re not going to normalize

In this episode, our expert guest Grant Wilson of Exante Data said that “we’re not going to normalize” and that countries need to make the very difficult decision to risk re-infection or re-outbreak in order to reopen the economy.

 

Grant Wilson is the Head of Asia Pacific for Exante Data, a macro advisory and data analytics company based in New York, with a broad global client roster. Exante Data was one of the first to identify and analyze the impact of Coronavirus with detailed data.

 

You can also check out our previous QuickHit episodes: How do we use up all the corn now? and How ready is the military to face COVID-19 and its challenges?

 

Show Notes

 

GW: So we saw COVID very early – mid to late January. In fact, I positioned it as a key risk factor for our clients. And as the situation evolved we just stayed with it.

 

We moved the firm increasingly towards all data through this period because we’re trying to assess how the virus is affecting the economy: [what are the] different scenarios to restart in different countries, different sectors, which is really the most germane question at the moment.

 

TN: Where do you think we are? I think the initial shock is past. Do you think we’re on a path to normalization or are we still in a hesitation phase before we get on to that normalization path or something different?

 

GW: I think it’s something different. I don’t think we’re going to normalize. I do think there are going to be industries, which have fundamentally changed coming out of this. People want to put a time frame on it, and I think you just got a run with it.

 

But to give you some examples, I’m extremely pessimistic about commercial real estate globally. The way people work has changed fundamentally, and it’s not going to change back. Whether the virus comes off a little bit more or whether we do get a second wave. The fundamental changes that are happening in terms of office environment, the digitization of communication. Those things are not going to turn around. So if you’re a large landlord or a sponsor of CMBX, derivative structure, you’ve got some real problems, and it does not matter where the virus is.

 

Similarly like public infrastructure. People are clearly using less trains, less buses, obviously less planes. Interesting that there could be a shift back to private car usage. We are trying to think through the secular things coming out of this.

 

And then for the virus itself, one of the most peculiar things is that there’s only probably a couple of countries globally that can truly achieve elimination, like to totally get rid of the virus within a proximate, self-contained environment. New Zealand’s a very good example of that. In Australia, the case counts are extremely low. So the rest of the world will not eliminate this thing. They’re gonna have to pick and make these really, really difficult decisions about how much of a virus risk and re-outbreak that they want to tolerate as against the imperatives of restarting the economy.

 

TN: A lot of the talk was about flattening the curve, which was about reducing the kind of overwhelming capacity going into hospitals so they could actually treat people. That flattening the curve discussion has changed to something different. And it seems to almost be approaching a zero-tolerance discussion where we have these lockdowns and people can’t go into work and make a living.

 

In the States, we recently saw Elon Musk threatened to move his company out of California to Texas potentially so that he could get his company to work. And the State of California or the county relented and let them come into work. Are we in a period where there’s selective lockdowns? Does flattening the curve mean anything anymore? What are you seeing in terms of the economy, industries?

 

GW: The thing is that a lot of companies, retail, hospitality, mass events, you know football games, basketball, things like that, they don’t really work in this model where you have social distancing. And so, you either really just have to go for full eradication. But it’s not possible in many of these places. You’re going to have to tolerate some reinfection risk and get on with it.

 

I’m very far away from the U.S., but we’re tracking it very closely state-by-state that there is sort of a polarization developing where Republican states are more inclined to try to restart the economy and sort of run this risk. Democratic states are still more tolerant of lockdown. And it seems increasingly politicized, and that’s not a great surprise given you’ve got a big event at the end of the year.

 

I’ve contrasted to Europe. When you listen to Angela Merkel, not Britain because Britain was very late and very confused in terms of their strategy. She’s a scientist by training and she explained very, very clearly that the first part of the strategy was to make sure that they didn’t blow through their ICU constraint. And now that they’ve achieved that, indeed they have flattened a curve. They’re not gunning for elimination. They know they can’t get there. And so they’re just trying to manage what’s known as the r0 so it doesn’t pop back up above one and you have a real explosive re-acceleration. But they’re having to live with it.

 

What still hasn’t necessarily gotten through to people, is that business models that worked previously don’t work anymore. It’s very hard to see how a lot of small and medium-term enterprises are going to make it out of this. And I think that’s the Chapter 3 or Chapter 4 version of it. But that’s the concern. There’ll be some winners and there’ll be some adaptation of the economy. But the legacy and the tail on this is just immense. It’s immense.

 

TN: So tell me this. Is there anything good that’s going to come out of this?

 

GW: There’s probably going to be a very significant re-think about climate change. This is going to be one of the first years where carbon emissions globally are going to fall. Effectively, it’s because we shut things down. It was the way that people actually wanted to get there. That’s probably one interesting data point. If you look at that area very closely, we’ve never been able to run a real-time experiment like this. So it will be very interesting to see how the effects sort of percolate through.

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QuickHit: How do we use up all the corn now?

This QuickHit episode, we talked about agriculture commodities with focus on corn ethanol. We are joined by Chris Narayanan with INTL FCStone in their Capital Markets. Chris held several different roles in the commodity space and was formerly a commodities and equity analyst for investment bankers. He explains why we have surplus of corn and other ag commodities and that this problem started way before the global pandemic. What will be the solution, and with crude in trouble, does it mean trouble for corn ethanol as well?

 

Our previous QuickHit talked about the military and the U.S. defense’s biggest supply chain problem: its dependence on the enemy. Watch it here.

 

If you want to be notified about new QuickHit releases, be sure to subscribe to our Youtube Channel here. Or sign up to the CI Weekly Newsletter for more insights on the economy, markets, and trends.

 

 

The views and opinions expressed in this QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

 

 

Show Notes

 

TN: I wanted to talk a little bit about ag commodity markets. With all of the COVID-related issues, we’ve seen demand really fall. We’ve seen things like potatoes stacking up and milk being poured out. It’s deflationary, it’s wasteful. How is that impacting markets in terms of the expected supply coming on, and how long do you expect this demand issue to be there?

 

CN: First, I think it’s important to take a step back. When you look at the commodity space, especially at agriculture, in a lot of areas, we’ve been flooded for several years. And then when the Trade War hit, that was another hit to the system. And now the Coronavirus is here, it’s another hit to the system. We’re trying to chew through this as quickly as possible.

 

People are shifting from eating out to eating at home. The buying patterns are changing. The foodstuff needs are changing. You go all the way back through the supply chain, back to the farmer and the rancher, it changes the dynamic.

 

USDA came out, with their monthly ag supply and demand report and they’re pretty optimistic for the new crop year. Now, that’s going take some time, and obviously these are just projections.

 

Looking at my screen right now, the market is a little lukewarm to it. As we get to the growing season, we what kind of supply we can expect, and then once the harvest hits, we’ll know, in terms of the global economy, how much we actually need.

 

TN: We saw some freezes over the weekend as well in the Midwest. Is that hurting things or is that late freeze something that just happens occasionally and markets just work that in?

 

CN: It depends on where it is and what stage they are. Planning is all over the place in a lot of areas and it depends on what crop you’re talking about. I don’t think you can make a blanket statement on that. But certainly, depending on the damage and the intensity on the area, there could be some damage. That might be supportive to prices at some point. But I think it’s a little early to say.

 

TN: What about things like corn? When we can move into talking about ethanol or fuels or some of the downstream products? Do you see this freeze hurting the corn crop, so it would tighten up the demand environment a little bit? Or is it all fine and it’s not really going hurt supply?

 

CN: It depends on where they are in planning. We’re in the middle of May. A lot of people hope to be done by now. If they didn’t get it in the ground, they might delay for a couple of weeks. If they did have it in the ground, they had some early emergence in some of the southern areas. But where the freeze really didn’t hit, it shouldn’t have that big of an impact.

 

I think the big thing is how do we use up the corn that we have? In the last decade, we’ve seen a huge increase in corn supplies. I look at the amount that’s left over at the end of a crop year divided by how much we used in that particular year. That’s been on the rise, and I think ethanol is a big portion of it. When people talk about ethanol, they say we need an increase in blend or go from E10, E15, or even higher.

 

In my opinion, that’s just kicking the can down the road. You’ll see an uptick for a little while — five, seven years or whatever that number is, and then it’s going to level off again back to where we are. You’ve just reset the base, but you don’t really solve the problem in a more long-term fashion.

 

I think there are two big things that we’re seeing in this current situation. First, driving fuel efficiency on vehicles has increased over the last 15-20 years. We’re driving more miles per gallon of gasoline. So incrementally, you need less ethanol to blend with the gasoline. The second part of efficiency is we are producing more gallons of ethanol with less bushels of corn. You need less corn than you did before. And now with the Coronavirus, people aren’t driving. We have a lot of stay-at-home orders that are starting to expire in some parts of the country. But again, you’re not driving, so you just don’t need to buy as much gasoline. I mean, my truck tank is half-full, and I think the last time I filled it was about a month-and-a-half or two months ago. 

 

What we needed to look at is how can we best work ethanol into global trade and where are the export markets. For example, we have the RFS and the RFS2 – biofuels and advanced biofuels. We can bring in Brazilian ethanol made from sugarcane and export corn ethanol to them. It’s just one example of a symbiotic relationship where the blenders here would get credits.

 

TN: How is that different? Are there differences between sugarcane ethanol and corn ethanol in terms of the end use?

 

CN: In terms of the end use, no. It’s the same. It’s really the process in which it’s made and how the EPA and other organizations look at the efficiency, the cleanliness, and the process of producing it all. At the end of the day, it blends, and specs will dictate. But theoretically it’s going to be just another substitute of each other.

 

TN: I’m just curious just to dig into that, why would the U.S. import Brazilian ethanol and export corn ethanol? Are they substitutional? 

 

CN: To an extent they are substitutes. So that makes it a little bit more practical. Back when we had blending credits, there were different credits that you can get depending on the stage. Corn ethanol was the most basic.

From a completely economic standpoint, if you’re a blender that has to purchase this ethanol to mix in with your gasoline, there was, at the time, an incentive involved for the added cost of doing this. So if we can work through this policy, maybe update the policies, look at our global trade where in any given year, you might have a surplus in one country and the other, why not introduce some kind of a trade scheme where you help each other out, right?

 

Because if you go to Brazil for example, you can go to a pump and they literally dial in E0 to E100. They can run their engines on most. And they run that mix depending on the economics, I think it was like 70. If the price of ethanol was 70% of gasoline or less then, it was more economic to use ethanol.

 

Some people say that you see a slight loss in fuel efficiency and so there’s that kind of scale that you can apply and use to your advantage. Look in the fact that you can increase the blend wall and maybe go to E20 or E25. And the tests from the engineers show that that’s not gonna do anything to the vehicle, then that’s great. But again, it’s a temporary fix — temporary meaning in the next ten years versus what I’m looking like 30, 40 years ahead in the future.

 

TN: So with crude oil prices depressed, how hard will it be to get those refiners to include ethanol? Are those blenders to include ethanol if crude and gasoline are super cheap?

 

CN: So here’s the thing that nobody talks about. We have the Clean Air Act, which introduced the cafe standards for fuel efficiency. In 30 different partners around the US, you have to introduce some kind of an oxygenate to basically treat the gasoline. MTBE was the preferred substance at the time but it was found to pollute groundwater. 30 some-odd different states banned it, so that effectively made a de facto nationwide ban on it. So to meet the Clean Air Act in those cafe standards, you had to introduce something. Ethanol was what came in. It burned clean. It was renewable. It didn’t pollute groundwater and it helped make that standard.

 

When I was at a previous job, going back about seven years ago or so, I was working with one of my other commodity analysts and we did a joint paper on corn gasoline and ethanol. If memory serves, it was like E6.2 or something where when you look at the different summer blends versus the winter blend the different metropolitan areas and you distill down to what do we actually need.

 

Until you find another additive to take the place of ethanol that’s cheaper, safer, or at least
safe, you still have some incremental demand that needs to be put into the gasoline that’s just required by law.

 

TN: Chris, thanks so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. I’d love to circle back and talk about other ag commodities in a couple of months to see where things are at.

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QuickHit: There’s no going back for O&G sector jobs

In this week’s QuickHit episode, we have Vandana Hari, CEO and founder of Vanda Insights. She has 25 years of experience in the oil and gas and we asked what she expects to see happening in the near future. Will the oil industry recover, and when? Will bankruptcies and layoffs in big oil firms continue? And what can these companies and the government do to prevent the worst from happening?

 

We also discussed the oil and gas industry in the previous QuickHit episode on what companies can do right now to win post-COVID.

 

The views and opinions expressed in this QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

 

Show Notes

 

TN: Today we’re joined by Vandana Hari of Vanda Insights. She is one of the top energy market experts in the world. Can you tell us a little bit about your firm and what you do?

 

VH: I have been looking at the oil markets for 25 years now. I started my firm Vanda Insights, which provides global oil markets macro analysis about 4 years ago. Prior to that, I worked with Platts, which is a very well-known name in energy commodities. I looked at the pricing of crude, refined products and various other energy commodities. I covered news and analysis.

 

TN: Great. So it’s obvious why you’re here. Crude markets are in crisis. The big, big question is how long are we in this kind of sub $20, sub $30 zone? Generally, what’s your expectation for the length of that super depressed pricing?

 

VH: It’s certainly not going to be a v-shaped recovery. As we speak Brent, a benchmark crude, is trading around $22 to $23 a barrel. US WTI, another benchmark, is trading around $12 or $13 dollars a barrel. Now where do I see these going?

 

As we look out into May, and I’m taking into consideration a couple of factors there. One is that we are starting to see gradual reopening of the economy in Europe, the worst-hit countries Italy, Spain, France, Germany, and then we have the US and as we were discussing offline, Texas is looking to reopen. Some of the other US states are going to reopen as well. The oil markets will have a very close eye on these re-openings because they have the answer to demand revival. We are coming out of an unforeseen, unprecedented trough in global oil demand close to 30%–30 million barrels per day–of global oil demand has been destroyed. How does this go into May?

 

I’m expecting a very extremely slow gradual revival. There may be a bit of an impetus and upward boost to oil prices from a gradual reopening. Nothing like what we are seeing in the stock markets, though. I think that’s where stocks and stock markets and oil are going to decouple and have already started to decouple from what I can see.

 

The other element is going to be supply. So OPEC and non-OPEC alliance of 23 members. 20 out of those 23 have committed to reducing production collectively by about 9.7 million barrels per day for May and June. Now typically, that sort of an announcement, which happened back on the 12th of April would have in itself boosted oil prices. But this one didn’t. Now clearly it is seen as too little too late. Nonetheless, it will start mopping up some surplus. It’s just that it will again be very slow in giving any sort of positive signals to oil because remember, oil has to work through nearly three months of oversupply and an overhang. So the glut is going to take its time to disappear.

 

TN: It’s a demand problem, right? It’s a supply problem, but you do have lack of demand from the government shutdowns, and then there is supply continuing to come online. All of this issue, it makes me wonder bout the shale companies. I’m curious about shale and kind of privately held independent oil companies. But I also want to learn a little bit about NOCs, the national oil companies. If you don’t mind telling us, what is your view on shale? And how do you expect the NOC’s to fare after this? Do you think they’ll thrive? Do you think they’ll cut the fat? Do you think they’ll change at all, or do you think they’ll just continue to lumber along as they have for the past whatever 70 years?

 

VH: The one characteristic of this crisis is that the pain in the oil sector is being felt and will continue to be felt across the spectrum, all the way, from oil production to refining to logistics. And we can talk about logistics in a little bit as well, because that’s doing quite well now because of storage demand.

 

However, the pain is going to be felt all the way down to refining and retail. It’s also going to be spread across geographies. It’s going to be spread across the size and nature of companies, whether you are an oil major or an independent or an NOC.

 

Let’s talk about shale first. It’s not just the OPEC, non-OPEC enforced mandated cuts, but I am expecting to see major decline starting to happen in North America, in Brazil and perhaps in other places like the North Sea as well. What happens in the US is going to be key because it’s the biggest oil producer, thanks to the shale boom. Shale contributes nearly 80% of US oil production. What happens to shale is also going to hold the key to US energy independence in the future.

 

I also look at a couple of very key metrics in the shale patch. One is the weekly rig count that I monitor from Baker Hughes. The other one is a weekly count of the fracturing fleet. So in the hydraulic fracturing, it is far more jaw-dropping decline in numbers that have seen. 70% drop in the frat fleets currently versus the start of this year.

 

What all of that tells me, and we’ve done some number crunching of our own, is we expect to see close to a million barrels per day of decline in June going up to 2 million barrels per day in July. That’s something that the oil market is not quite factoring in yet. Let’s remember that shale bounced back phenomenally after the 2014-16 downturn. That’s the impression that the market has. That shale may be down on its knees, but it will bounce back. But this time, I think it’s going to be very, very different. It’s going to be nothing like a bounce back.

 

As far as national oil companies are concerned, I look at them quite closely sitting here in Asia, they are a breed in themselves. A lot of them are lumbering giants, very slow to change. Most of them are directly controlled by the government or have majority state ownership.

 

Now, one of the things that I have noticed that is going in favor of the NOC’s, especially in Asia–countries like India, China, even places in Southeast Asia–is that they have a captive, domestic, fast-growing market. These NOCs also tend to be vertically integrated, so and more often than not, Asia is a net importer of crude. They have giant refining operations and relatively less upstream or oil and gas production operations.

 

Refining is also getting hit in the current downturn. What we see refiners doing, which includes these NOCs of course, are they’re cutting back out. Port refining margins are terrible. They have gone into negative for a lot of the major products. How will the NOCs survive this? I think they come out of this with a great deal of financial strain. We have to see to what extent they get government support. Some of the NOCs, unfortunately, especially in countries like Indonesia, also struggle with fuel subsidies. So those might fare even worse in the recovery mode. Overall, I think another transition that’s going to take hold for NOCs is the investment in technology: to be more efficient whether you’re producing or refining or retailing oil. And to be more environmentally-friendly with products.

 

TN: Do you think they’ll be more productive? Do you think they’ll invest in technology? Just across the board with oil and gas companies in general. Do you think they’ll actually invest in productivity or do you think they’ll just kind of hold their breath and buckle down like they have always done? Can they afford to do that this time?

 

VH: So when it comes to technology, specifically for cleaner energy, it tends to be driven more by regulation than by market forces or by just companies one day waking up and deciding “Hey, I’m going to be more environmentally friendly.” It just doesn’t happen that way, and that’s certainly true for NOCs. I think oil majors are under a slightly different kind of dynamic. We’ve seen, for instance, only in recent weeks, BP and Shell double-down on their commitment towards greener, cleaner energy. Of course, their feet are being held to the fire by their shareholders.

 

NOCs are in a very different environment. I think a lot will depend on to what extent governments in Asia re-commit themselves to the Paris Agreement, and are part of the global drive towards cleaner energy. We have seen in recent years visible, tangible air pollution has been a major concern in cities all the way from Delhi to Beijing.

 

TN: As we as we stop under COVID, you know, air quality has improved dramatically, right?

 

VH: Yes indeed. You have to think when people go back to the new normal, and they are out and about and the pollution levels increase, what will that do in terms of pressure on these companies? So overall, I think the pressure from the environment will remain, to adopt new technologies, to move towards cleaner fuels.

 

Pressure from oil prices to be more efficient may be the case for NOCs. I see that a little bit less, and they’ll have to just pick and choose basically, right? But your big question, where does the money come from? I think that remains a major, major issue. Will they be able to raise money? So we’ve seen in the latest crisis, a few oil companies that are well-regarded, oil majors have tapped banks and raised loans. What I would personally love to see is for these NOCs to come out there a little more aggressively, because after all, they will be back in favor, thanks to the captive market. So I’d love to see them raise money with bonds, bank loans, or whatever, because they will need money from outside. There certainly won’t be enough to dip into their pockets.

 

TN: Yeah. The national accounts from any of these countries can’t really handle it. So that’s a great point.

 

We’re running long, but I don’t want to stop this conversation. So normally, I’d cut this off. But let me ask you one last question, okay? I live in Houston, Texas, and oil and gas town. We’ve seen some layoffs. But we actually haven’t seen a lot yet. You don’t live here so, you know, you can give us an unbiased view of the energy sector. What do you expect, and it’s not just Houston, of course, it’s the energy sector globally. Are we at the midpoint of energy layoffs, are we early, are we late? I mean, how bad do you expect it to get?

 

VH: I think we are probably at the beginning of it. So we have started seeing bankruptcies in the shale sector. Well, to be clear, the bankruptcies in the shale sector accelerated even in 2019. Shareholders and lenders have been becoming disenchanted with the sector for a while. But I do expect bankruptcies to set a record unfortunately in 2020, perhaps spilling over into 2021 as well.

 

But when I look at the US energy sector, I’m also paying attention to a lot of news about the US government making a lot of noise about wanting to help the energy sector. So whether it be, opening up the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, allowing producers to store oil there or to giving them loans from the Fed’s Main Street Lending program. All of that, remains to be seen, and we’ve heard some ideas about banning or putting tariffs on OPEC crude and so on, which probably won’t happen. But I think some of these other measures will happen.

 

My concern is that for most companies, it will probably be too little too late. So I do expect a huge consolidation, and unfortunately a lot of layoffs. People will just have to reinvent themselves, learn new skills, because there may be no going back to oil sector jobs.

 

TN: I think you’re right. I think it’s a generational change. I think it’s a really tough time, and you know these people, it’s nothing they deserve, it’s nothing they’ve even done. But it’s just a very tough global situation where supply outweighs demand. It’s that simple.

 

So Vandana, this has been amazing. I haven’t done any of these interviews that are this long. I’m so grateful to get this much of your time. Thanks you and I’m hoping maybe we can revisit with you in a few months see where things are and take stock of what the future holds?

 

VH: It’s been my pleasure, Tony and I’d love to do this again and thank you to our viewers who’ve stayed with us all the way to the end. I hope it has been worth it.