Complete Intelligence

Categories
Podcasts

Be Warned: High Prices Are Here To Stay

Our CEO, Tony Nash, talks about inflation’s and Omicron’s role in US shares sinking, as fears spread over their non-transitory nature. And how will Asia react to the ‘non-transitory’ nature of inflation and the new Covid variant? Is Gold a good asset to use to hedge against inflation?

This podcast first appeared and originally published at https://www.bfm.my/podcast/morning-run/market-watch/be-warned-high-prices-are-here-to-stay on December 02, 2021.

  • Discover how Complete Intelligence can help your company be more profitable with AI and ML technologies. Book a demo here.

Show Notes

PS: Markets in the US were down across the board. The Dow is down 1.3%. S&P 500 down 1.2% Nasdaq down 1.8%. Now over across in Asia, everyone was up. Nikkei was up .4% Hang Seng up .8% Shanghai Composite also up .4% and STI Singapore up 1.9%. And as I was saying early on, FBM KLCI was down 1.1%.

TN: Yeah. Thanks for having me, guys. I think the biggest consideration really is Powell’s comments on inflation, saying it’s kind of no longer transitory. So people should expect inflation to stay. What that means generally is we’ve hit a new pricing level is his expectation. So meaning prices are not in his mind, in many cases, going to go back to the levels that we saw before this inflationary stairstep. And what we’ve seen, particularly in the US, is consumers have accepted this and consumers accepted it, thinking that it was a temporary rise in prices.


But what he delivered today is some bad news that it’s likely a permanent prize in the level of prices. And the kind of short term cost rises that people thought they were going to endure are more permanent.

KSC: Yeah. So, Tony, try and give us a bit of a perspective here, because obviously the last twelve years and the last accelerated two years of monetary easing have induced this inflation. How does it all end? And does it stop the weak economic growth we’ve been seeing in the US the last few months.

TN: Yeah. So US economic growth, we don’t see a rapid acceleration of US economic growth. And so we have the US, China, Japan, and the EU, all at very subdued growth rates. And that’s bad. Those are the four largest economies with elevated price rises. Earnings are growing in some areas. I’m sorry, wages are growing in some areas, but they’re not necessarily growing across the economy. And part of that, particularly in the US, is a shortage of staff. So people have opted out of the workforce. We’ve lost, like 6 million workers in the US since Covid.


And so there are fewer workers. And so we have wages rising in certain areas. But it’s not necessarily across the board. So people are really going to have to start taking a look at their disposable income to understand what of these ongoing price rises that they can continue to accept. And I think we’re at a point where, since it’s no longer viewed as temporary, people and companies are going to have to start making trade offs. This is really the bad news is when people have to, when it’s no longer temporary, companies and people have to start making trade offs of what to do with their resources.


And that’s where the real problem is. So it’s not ongoing expansionary spending. And even I think it was Biden who said today we don’t expect a stimulus package for the current variant. Again, people are having to look at trade offs, and this is the real problem. When companies have to look at trade offs, they’re looking at their operating costs, they’re looking at their capital expenditure, they’re looking at their investments, they’re looking at other things. So down to Earth type of environment where we’re starting to enter Realville, we’re starting to exit the kind of fantasy environment we’ve been in the monetary induced sugar coma that we’ve been in for the past year and a half.

PS: So that’s a very interesting point, because I’ve always felt like in 2021, we saw this huge divergence in recovery right between the developed world led by the US and emerging markets, which are still really struggling to contain the virus and such. So when we talk about Asia, how do you think markets will react to this tightening of monetary policy by the Fed?

TN: Yeah. We think that Southeast Asia generally will stay pretty muted. We don’t expect early breakout at least over the next quarter or two. We don’t expect really breakout moves in Southeast Asia. We expect China to have a fair bit of volatility, but we do expect China to be generally positive over the next quarter to quarter horizon. We do expect Japan to continue to rise pretty well in India as well. Japan largely on the back of monetary policy automation, other things. So Asia is not one market, of course.


So we do expect different parts of Asia to react differently. Korea will be a mix between China and Japan like it always is. So we’ll see some volatility there reflecting China, but we’ll see some, I guess, acceleration and equities like we would see in Japan to make some both.

KSC: Well, Tony, in truth, inflation has been with us for some weeks now. But what hasn’t been with us for some weeks has been on the Omicron that’s the other big roadblock posing an obstacle to markets. How does Asia behave? How does Asia react, especially since we’re going to be opening in a few hours time?

TN: Yeah, I think Asia generally. You guys know I lived in Asia for most of my life, and Asia generally takes these things in stride with more vaccines available with the typical kind of weathering, the storm kind of approach that people have, particularly in Southeast Asia. I think people will generally take it in stride. This is really the first pandemic. Let’s say in the west that people have had for probably 50 years where they’ve really been kind of freaked out and worried in Asia, we’ve seen these types of pandemics for 2030 years.


It’s a bit different. People are more conservative, people are more used to these types of volatile, say, public health and market and other type of environments in Asia. So of course, we’ll see things shake up, but we won’t necessarily see the dire kind of messages that we’ve seen, say in the west. I don’t think we will. We’ve seen dire messages come out of, say, Germany and Italy and Austria, particularly over the past week with full lockdowns with 100% vaccine mandates, with really dire messaging. I don’t necessarily think we’re going to see super negative messaging in Asia like we’ve seen there.

PS: We won’t freak out as much as what you’re saying then essentially.

TN: No. Come on, man. It’s Asia, right? People are used to volatility in Asia and the developed markets. Developed markets are highly calibrated. Right? 0.2% change. Either way is people see as dramatic in Asia a small they’re not as calibrated. So people are accustomed to more ups and downs, and people just generally take it in stride.

PS: And I said that generally it’s quite calming. Is gold with inflation basically consigned away from this trend trade term? What’s your view in terms of gold? That’s a hit against inflation then? Because if I look at the data, the method is down 6% year to date.

TN: Right. And a lot of the inflationary rise has already happened. A lot of the stuff happens in stairstep fashion, and a lot of the mitigation efforts are already under way. So while we’ll continue to see inflation and we’ll continue to stay at an inflated level, I don’t necessarily. Or we’re not seeing dramatic price rises going forward. Okay. You’ll see it in pockets where there are, say, supply issues or something like that. But gold is more effective when everything is well, gold is a barometer for finding value.

I’ll say that much. It’s a tangible metal and people see it as worth something. And so what used to happen is gold and say the dollar as the dollar do value the gold would appreciate. But now we have crypto and people treat crypto kind of in the same way they used to treat gold. The gold market is really trying to find itself. So I think we’re going to have to see some fallout in crypto if it is to happen. We’ll have to see some fallout in crypto before we start to see gold being the safe haven again or being the preeminent safe haven.


So until Bitcoin and the other crypto assets really deteriorate in value and people go flocking back to gold, which I think will happen eventually. I don’t think it’ll happen overnight, but until we see a lack of faith in crypto, I don’t think we’ll necessarily see dramatic price pressure on gold.

KSC: Tony, you talked about Asia, right? And now China is moving to banners via structure, which is the loophole that allows its companies to list in New York and other foreign exchanges. What does this mean in terms of China’s overall strategy to go its own way to quote Fleetwood Mac?

TN: Sure. Yeah. So I think, of course, it hurts Western banks, and it hurts the Western banks that are in Asia because they don’t necessarily have those fees to take things public in the west. But I think the bigger problem is this those companies going public don’t have US dollar denominated resources to access, and so they have to get CNY or Hong Kong dollar or Japanese yen or other Sing dollar other denominated assets. Okay. But the US dollar is 87% of global transactions. So it helps those companies to have US dollar reserves, especially as they’re newly public.


Because why do you go public? Because you want to buy another company, you want to use that cash for a big investment or something, you want to expand in a big way. So if you don’t have the US dollar assets that come from going public, say, in New York or somewhere in the US or whatever, it’s really hard to have a big source of cash to do a massive international expansion or undertake a big international project or do a big international buy that’s I guess the biggest downside I would see from the decline of that type of structure in China.

KSC: All right, Tony, thank you so much for your time, Tony Nash there chief executive of Complete Intelligence. And just to hang on this last point, Phil, if you don’t list in the US, you don’t get US dollars necessarily. But that doesn’t matter if you are China, and you believe that the real market is domestically or within ASEAN, where you’ve got to combine, I don’t know, 2.1 trillion people or 2.1 billion people. That’s quite a fair few heads. Yes.

PS: Correct. I think it’s a question of whether you see a convergence between where you list versus where you operate.

KSC: Absolutely.

PS: And I think in the past we thought, okay, you could tap financial markets globally to serve your local markets. But I think China is kind of proving the point. No. I think it’ll be closer together.

KSC: Yeah. And what he was talking about in response to your question on gold, Phil, how gold hasn’t responded to all this uncertainty, which has been traditionally the case. And Bitcoin is somewhere hovering around in the mid 50s, which is a bit weird because you would expect some kind of flight to what was seen as safe havens, right.

PS: Ironic is considered Bitcoin a flight to safe havens.

KSC: Well, because it’s finite in nature. So it’s a bit like gold, right. It seems interesting, because in the last few weeks, we’ve seen a move among corporates like Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook and now Jack Dorsey, formerly of Twitter, who has left his job at Twitter. Still, at the same time was CEO of Square fintech platform financial platform. He’s moving to turn Square into a company called Block, and it’s a bit like it would make Mr. Miyagi proud because martial arts moves from square to block, but he’s going all in.

PS: But this is a very interesting thing because he’s going all in on crypto. And I think you’re referring to Blockchain blockchain reference to Blockchain, which is the distributed platform for data used by Crypto.


But it’s interesting, right? This whole name shift.


I think Jack Dorsey, I think, is trying to evolve away from just being a pure payments provider to offering solutions that are anchored on blockchain as a solution.

Categories
Podcasts

How long can the bull run?

Now that the bull run has started, Tony Nash CEO and Founder of Complete Intelligence joins BFM 89.9 in another global markets discussion. What’s behind this rally and will it be sustained? They also discuss OPEC, the Brent price and its future, Europe’s fiscal stimulus, the ECB, and the resumption of trade war between the U.S. and China.

 

Listen to the podcast on BFM: The Business Station.

 

BFM Description:

On the back of an emerging bull run in Asia and the U.S., we reach out to Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence, for his thoughts on whether or not this momentum can be maintained, oil prices, as well as the ECB’s bond purchase programme.

 

Produced by: Michael Gong

 

Presented by: Wong Shou Ning, Lyn Mak

 

 

Show Notes

 

 

BFM: U.S. stocks extended their rally into the eighth straight day as investors clung to optimism for quick recovery from the pandemic. So the Dow Jones closed up 2.1 percent. The S&P 500 closed up 1.8 percent, and NASDAQ was up 0.8 percent. In fact, NASDAQ in the intraday trading did touch an all-time high. It’s as if COVID-19 never happened.

 

Meanwhile, Asia also had a very good run. Nikkei 225 closed at 1.3 percent. Shanghai was barely up, though. It was flat at 0.1 percent. Hang Seng was up 1.4 percent. Singapore was the big surprise here. We talked about it yesterday. The banking stocks were up and this caused the Straits Times Index to go up by 3.4 percent. Meanwhile, on the FBMKLCI, our market was up 2.1 percent. Also on the back of banking stocks, public bank RHP saw almost a pulping double-digit gains.

 

Pandemic? What pandemic? Never happened.

 

So this morning, for more insight into global markets, we have on the line with us Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Thanks very much for joining us this morning, Tony.

 

Now, equities have recently exhibited strong bullish momentum in both Asia and the U.S.. What’s behind this rally? And is it sustainable?

 

TN: I think a lot of it is the monetary policy expectations and the stimulus expectations washing through. It’s a lot of hope around activity in the summer, say, for crude prices, driving and consumption. There’s an expectation that there’s been some pent up consumption because of COVID. Some of this is coming back. It’s key to know that the U.S. markets are still 10 percent below where they were pre-COVID, 10 percent or more. So it’s not completely as if things never happened, but it has come back relatively quickly. The S&P, for example, was at around 2300. So we’ve climbed about 700 points in the S&P 500 since the nadir of COVID.

 

BFM: I always ask our commentators this, and I’m going to ask you also. Why the disconnect between what is happening on Main Street versus what’s happening on Wall Street.

 

TN: There’s an expectation that most publicly traded companies are going to pack as much bad news into Q2 as possible. And so they’re just throwing the kitchen sink into Q2. So that should mean pretty clear sailing for the rest of the year, assuming that it is 2020 and all. So anything can happen. But assuming that there isn’t another major catastrophe, things should be pretty clear for the rest of the year if every- and anything that could go wrong goes into Q2 data.

 

BFM: Brent has also erased some of its recent gains and is back below the $40 a barrel mark with the OPEC meeting now in doubt. What do you think oil prices will be heading?

 

TN: Our view is that things have been pretty range traded. We don’t see things going up to, say, $50 anytime soon. It’s possible. But we’ve expected things to stay pretty range traded until probably August or so.

 

We’re going to see daily rises and we’re going to see falls. But prices have come back a little bit on some drawdowns we’ve seen in storage and expectations around driving. Although, It’s not a perfect substitution for flying. And those volumes will still be down until we start to see people get back on planes. And until we start to see commuters back on their daily drives, we really don’t expect to see things come back above, say, $50 for Brent.

 

BFM: Shifting to Europe. The ECB is expected to expand its bond repurchase program this Thursday. So they’ve got a currency 750 billion euros outlay. Is that enough or do you think they need to increase it?

 

TN: It’s not enough. But I don’t know that Europe really has the financial wherewithal to do much more. They are not a fiscal union. And so they’re really having to contort their mandate to make sure that they can do this. This is really pushing Europe and the ECB and the concept of a quasi-fiscal union under the E.U. is putting real pressure on that.

 

So the limits of the monetary, not fiscal union are really pressed. And when you look at things like the insolvencies we saw in Greece and Italy and other places in southern Europe over the last 10 years, places like Germany are just tired of fiscal stimulus of other countries in the EU.

 

BFM: And if you look at the equity markets in Europe, that’s been also the lag out. Do you think there’s any opportunities there or is it a similar situation whereby the corporates there are going to not perform up to par?

 

TN: No, we don’t think they’ll perform up to par. Until we see countries beyond Germany really lift some of these lockdowns in a big way, it’s going to be really slow going. It’s strange how we’ve seen these protests really go against the lockdown. We may actually see some of these countries rip the Band-Aid off, because if you have tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of protesters out there, it may be a situation where you can just say, “Well, lockdown’s over,” and you may start to see consumption patterns come back to normal. That would be a good thing for markets. That would be a good thing for companies. But European companies, especially European banks, remain troubled. And I think this crisis has really forced those banks to look in the mirror. And if markets are functioning well, then we’ll start to see some consequences, particularly for European banks.

 

BFM: Thank you very much for speaking with us this morning, Tony. And that was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence.

 

He made some comments there about Brent crude, which he doesn’t really expect to come above the fifty dollars per barrel mark until perhaps we see planes start flying again. But the Trump administration has just made an announcement to that effect, saying that they are suspending passenger flights to the U.S. by Chinese airlines effective June 16th.

 

So the U.S. government said in a statement that it was responding to the failure of the Chinese government to allow U.S. carriers to fly to and from China. Now, this hasn’t, of course, been good for the tensions that have already been flaring between the two countries over the handling of COVID-19, as well as the treatment of Hong Kong.

 

China recently paused some agriculture imports after Trump threatened to limit the policy exemptions that allow America to treat Hong Kong differently than the mainland.

 

And that was done. The global economy was cheering and it looks like they’ve started fighting again. I think I’m just curious, what else is there to fight over? Because there’s been soybeans, beef, pork imports, corn, and now airlines.

 

U.S. airlines did see a bit of a share surge amidst the broader market rally and signs that travel demand is starting to rebound. Boeing was up 13 percent at one point after a report from IATA indicated that recovery was underway for global airlines.

 

So looks like we’re going to be watching that space as well, quite closely.

Categories
QuickHit Visual (Videos)

QuickHit: Proactive companies use data to COVID-proof their supply chains

Supply chain expert and SAP SCM/IBP Architect Odell Smith of My Supply Chain Group joins this week’s QuickHit to talk about how proactive companies will survive, how data helps them decide quickly on supply chain solutions, and what we can do to be better prepared next time. After a quick 5-year stint in engineering, Odell has been doing supply chain technologies for over 30 years. His company does mostly SAP products and advisory services and implementing technologies for the supply chain.

 

Don’t forget to subscribe to our Youtube channel and hit the bell icon to be notified when a new QuickHit goes live. If you missed some of our episodes, here are some of the lastest ones you’ll enjoy watching:

 

Manufacturers are bouncing back, but…

We’re not going to normalize

How do we use up all the corn now?

How ready is the military to face COVID-19 and its challenges?

Oil companies will either shut-in or cut back, layoffs not done yet

 

The views and opinions expressed in this QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

 

Show Notes

 

TN: How are your clients looking at their supply chains? How do they use their data to better understand and plan their supply chains even with all the craziness and volatility? Can you give us an example?

 

OS: Our clients have had a variety of different issues. There are companies that even inside the same company, they’ve had one business unit with a huge spike in demand and another business unit will just drop off. One of our clients is one of the largest beer producers in the world. Their keg business that supports restaurants just evaporated all of a sudden. But their bottled beer just went through the roof.

 

So these companies are trying to see these demand patterns as they come in, but also be able to quickly respond to those. Everybody’s used to the monthly demand patterns. But being able to see such a rapid volatile change in these demand patterns and being able to see that with data in the systems, then being able to simulate how you’re going to respond and make intelligent decisions based on that data, has been a real game-changer. If this had happened 20 years ago, it would have been a much more difficult scenario to recover from.

 

TN: What kind of data are people using to make these decisions? Because we really don’t know what’s coming from the outside. All the governments say macroeconomic data. This hasn’t come in obviously. So how are people taking data in to understand how to adjust their manufacturing patterns?

 

OS: The operation’s focus is about trying to estimate what that demand pattern is going to look like and then be able to adjust from that, if you have a constant supply. But if you have an irregular supply, it’s also a problem.

 

Another huge issue here is we’ve off-shored so much stuff in the last 15 to 20 years. An example is one of our customers that is a large paper supplier. They bring in pulp from other suppliers. Everybody’s familiar with the toilet paper issues that we’ve had. These guys had all kinds of issues come up. They bring in product and then they manufacture that product. As they do that, their supply chains were disrupted by not being able to get their suppliers’ product through the ports. Their port activity was blocked. They knew that was going to be the case, and so they had to redirect some of that stuff that was coming in to run their manufacturing.

 

They also worked proactively with the ports. They knew that the port was going to be closed and they had to redirect that. We put in some cost optimization for them to be able to evaluate simulations to estimate where it looked like the best place to bring this raw material. And then of course, their manufacturing process itself had to change, because there’s a lot more demand now for toilet paper than there was for paper towels.

 

Nobody expected that demand shift. Everybody was unprepared for that. But being able to use data to make smart, intelligent, short-term decisions about how to correct for that new demand was something that they were able to put in place fairly quickly. For scenario planning, we were using SAP IBP to be able to make those right decisions.

 

TN: I started my career in a freight forwarder, customs broker, and all the physical logistics around it. And it was always interesting to me early in my career to see when people had cost-sensitive, time-sensitive, quality-based decisions, and you’re balancing all three. The types of decisions they made sounded like they didn’t really have any history to go by. They were just looking at expectations, and you’re just playing it day-by-day or week-by-week.

 

OS: If you have the tools and you have the data, then you can do that. Now, a lot of this data was manufactured data themselves because it was based on estimates. What are my options here? I’ve got three other ports to use, and there’s different costs of transportation going through those ports, plus there’s a risk. Will I be able to get the stuff processed through and time to be able to make it? And if I don’t, then what’s the downstream impact to me in my subsequent manufacturing process?

 

TN: All to get a roll of toilet paper to your corner store. What would you say manufacturing companies need to be thinking about? How can people be better prepared the next time this happens?

 

OS: One thing that came out of this is that this data is changing so rapidly. [Companies that can] access that data can see what worked, and what didn’t work from the last situation. There are going to be some things when you’re making these snap decisions, and you’re just trying to keep your business afloat. There are going to be some things that you learn in hindsight that were not the best thing to do. As long as you plan for that, and you know that that’s going to be the case, and you review that after the fact, and are prepared for that risk, know where that risk is, then it always helps you be able to respond better next time. If you don’t learn from those things, shame on you.

 

TN: Do most major manufacturing firms today have a good base of data and well-organized data to make some of those decisions? Or is it still kind of iffy?

 

OS: It depends. There are some that have really good data. But it has to be a decision by the company. The company has to decide to put the resources in place and to have that vision, that strategy of knowing that that data is important and that the data needs to be reviewed, audited, and cleansed.

 

Some companies are very proactive. Some companies are completely reactive. And when you get in a situation like this with this craziness, these [reactive] companies won’t make it. Proactive companies will make it. So it’s really a business mindset and putting a value on that data that makes it helpful.

 

TN: These major manufacturers that you work with, I think there’s a perception out there that a manufacturing firm has one ERP system. Do you work with any firms that have kind of one ERP system or are they dealing with half a dozen or more typically?

 

OS: There are companies that have been able to maintain that single ERP situation. But more than not, you wind up with mergers and acquisitions. And these M&A activity is just brutal on IT organizations because very seldom do you acquire somebody who has the very same ERP system and they are on the same version that you’re on. And then, there’s a product rationalization and a customer rationalization that has to take place. Those are all very difficult things to get past.

 

TN: Pointing out, so just people understand. It’s not as if you’re just taking data out, putting it in a big machine and then putting it out the other end to help make a decision. You’re taking data in from a lot of different sources. And you’re making sure that it’s somewhat normalized or understandable in the output. And then those managers within those companies are also seeing data in a number of different formats to make those decisions. So this isn’t linear. This looks more like a bunch of weeds over here and a bunch of mangled tree roots over there and you’re trying to make it as linear as possible. The complexity of these decisions, the complexity of these data, say logistics activities, are just fascinating.

 

So last question here Odell. You’ve seen these companies through the first phase or two phases of this. Do you see these companies back on a path to normalization now? Are there manufacturing and supply chain processes normalizing now?

 

OS: There are some that are beginning to get back on the horse and there are some that are just still severely impacted. Some of our customers are in the pharma industry. They’re just going nuts and they’re going to continue to go nuts for a while. It’s really a mixed bag of things. A lot of our customers manufacture products that are related to home. Everybody has been doing a lot more of that lately. Demands for those have still been really strong even though supply may have been impacted by some of the situations.

 

One of our clients is a company that has multiple legacy systems. One of the great things about these new cloud solutions is the ability to do that normalization, to be able to take data from multiple different ERPs, disparate ERPs, and bring it in for a total view for the executive team to make these quick decisions. A lot of our customers are doing really well, and so it’s great to see them coming out of this. It’s been a slow couple of months for people just to wrap their arms around the thing, and try to just fight fires. And then now we’re coming out of some of that and into recovery mode that looks good and strong.

Categories
QuickHit Visual (Videos)

QuickHit: Manufacturers are bouncing back, but…

In this QuickHit episode, we are talking with Chad Moutray of the National Association of Manufacturers (NAM). Chad is the Chief Economist for NAM, and he talks with manufacturers across the U.S. every day, to understand their issues and informs them of the the overall economic landscape. NAM has about 14,000 members that includes state manufacturing associations. Tony Nash discussed with Moutray the state of manufacturing especially in this time of the pandemic. What are they doing, thinking, and what are their plans? 

 

You can revisit our previous QuickHit episodes here:

 

We’re not going to normalize
How do we use up all the corn now?
How ready is the military to face COVID-19 and its challenges?

 

The views and opinions expressed in this QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

Show Notes

 

TN: Can you walk us through some of the manufacturing firms that you’ve been interacting with and how do they’ve come to understand the environment? What have they been thinking about? What have their priorities been? Because I think it’s been confusing for everybody. But from a manufacturing perspective, what have you been seeing?

 

CM: I’ll go through a couple of things here. Number one, just that dearth of data that we had early on, everyone was asking me, “What is the current capacity utilization for manufacturing right now in the State of Pennsylvania?” I don’t know. How would I know, right?

 

There was a lack of information early on, and the abruptness and the severity of this downturn just caught a lot of people [off guard]. The numbers are so heartbreaking and jaw-dropping. We’re starting to get a sense now of what those numbers really are, and the drastic-ness of these figures in terms of being the worst ever, or the worst since the Great Recession. But there was a lack of information early on that really just caught people by surprise.

 

Companies don’t know what to do. This is not just a business conversation. It’s also a life and death conversation. Do you keep operating? Do you not keep operating? Are you operating in a state where you’re forced to close? Are you deemed essential? A lot of those things early on really dominated manufacturers’ time in terms of whether to operate, what happens if someone gets sick in your facility? What do you do? Do you close everything down? There was a scramble early on just to figure out operationally “What am I doing?”.

 

It moved from there to the conversation about PPE, Personal Protective Equipment, masks or ventilators or whatever else.

 

One thing that really has dominated that manufacturing conversation over the last month has been the National Association of Manufacturers work with the administration [to understand] whether it’s FEMA or DOD or the Vice President’s Office to say, “Okay. What do we need in order for everything to come back to normal? How many masks do we need? How many ventilators do we need?” And then helping to identify manufacturers that can produce that. That really has dominated a lot of time for the NAM over the last month or so–getting a handle on what are those needs.

 

That has gravitated into the new normal. Everyone is [asking] what does manufacturing look like three months from now, six months from now, a year from now? How do you get back to a sense of normal, whether there’s a vaccine or not a vaccine?

 

Answering those questions will dominate much of my time from a research perspective. We asked on a survey “Are you re-engineering in your process to have social distancing in mind,” or “Are you going to let people work from home?” That’s not always possible on the shop floor. But in some cases it may be, right? So those types of questions are first and foremost.

 

We’re talking to a series of tire manufacturers. They have a huge retail operation and retail is just going to change dramatically. They not only look at the manufacturing side, but how retail is going to change, and then how they can react. It shows you just how dynamic this particular moment in time is in terms of dramatically changing the sector.

 

TN: I know you’re still in the process of doing your research but what’s your feeling now? Do you get the sense that people want to get back to kind of a normal-ish environment quickly? I know “there” is relative. But do you think there’s a desire to get back and get relatively normal business activity back say in Q2 or Q3? Do you get the sense that it’s going to be longer? What’s the drag? How long will this drag effect impact companies and impact manufacturers?

 

CM: I do think that we’ve passed the worst of it. I do think that in that late March, early April, that’s when things just really hit bottom. You’ve started to see a sense, especially from some of the more recent data, that things, while they’re still bad, are not as bad as they were several weeks ago. I do get a sense that you’re starting to see that bounce back in the marketplace, which is good.

 

In general, there is what we’ll call “quarantine fatigue” not just for consumers but for businesses as well. There is a sense that activity is going to start resuming.

 

The difference here is that yes people are going to come back to it but there’s still going to be some hesitance there. We don’t have a vaccine. So coming back to work is not the same as it was before. That’s true at the NAM, that’s true in every workplace in the country. People’s willingness to go out to restaurants and bars and go to Disney World has all changed a little bit.

 

I do think that we are bouncing back already. But in this new environment, there is still a little bit of hesitance about getting out in crowds and the workplace change. Yes, I can go back to the office maybe, but am I going to? Am I going to continue working from home? How much separation is there for me between me and my co-worker on the shop floor? We’ve already started to see that rebound. But it’s in a different place than it was two months ago.

 

TN: A lot of questions. Let me shift gears a little bit and ask you about trade. With COVID-19 and initially when this was hitting China hard, we saw a lot of supply chains stall out and slow down. We’ve been talking about the regionalization of supply chains for a few years at Complete Intelligence. Is that something that you’re seeing, and I know you’re not necessarily advocating a position. So I don’t expect you to be doing that. But are you seeing that happen or is that concept not seeing a lot of traction on yet?

 

CM: We were starting to see people re-evaluating their supply chains as a result of the Trade War. Last year, we were seeing a lot of that. It doesn’t mean all of it’s coming back to the U.S., but it certainly means production might be moving out of China and other places. This exacerbates that even more. There’s been this realization that we can’t depend on one country and one source to get all of our stuff anymore given the extremeness of this disaster economically.

 

People are going to be re-evaluating the supply chain. From the NAM point of view, we want as much of that to come back to the U.S. as possible so we’ll be advocating policies on on-shoring. Look for that coming from us. But the reality is, companies are going to locate where they locate. There’s a lot of reasons why companies locate wherever they do, and it’s where the customers are, that’s where their other suppliers are, that’s where the intelligence is. And some of it’s going to go to Mexico, or to the rest of Southeast Asia. There is definitely this understanding that we’ve got to re-evaluate that supply chain process in terms of who we’re buying from, making sure there’s duplication, and I think that’s a conversation that every firm is having right now.

 

TN: Very good. Chad, thank you so much for your time. I’d love to have you back in a few months to revisit some of these questions. As the unknowns dissipate, it’ll be very interesting to to look back and see what people did right, what mistakes people can avoid next time this happens.

Categories
QuickHit Visual (Videos)

QuickHit: We’re not going to normalize

In this episode, our expert guest Grant Wilson of Exante Data said that “we’re not going to normalize” and that countries need to make the very difficult decision to risk re-infection or re-outbreak in order to reopen the economy.

 

Grant Wilson is the Head of Asia Pacific for Exante Data, a macro advisory and data analytics company based in New York, with a broad global client roster. Exante Data was one of the first to identify and analyze the impact of Coronavirus with detailed data.

 

You can also check out our previous QuickHit episodes: How do we use up all the corn now? and How ready is the military to face COVID-19 and its challenges?

 

Show Notes

 

GW: So we saw COVID very early – mid to late January. In fact, I positioned it as a key risk factor for our clients. And as the situation evolved we just stayed with it.

 

We moved the firm increasingly towards all data through this period because we’re trying to assess how the virus is affecting the economy: [what are the] different scenarios to restart in different countries, different sectors, which is really the most germane question at the moment.

 

TN: Where do you think we are? I think the initial shock is past. Do you think we’re on a path to normalization or are we still in a hesitation phase before we get on to that normalization path or something different?

 

GW: I think it’s something different. I don’t think we’re going to normalize. I do think there are going to be industries, which have fundamentally changed coming out of this. People want to put a time frame on it, and I think you just got a run with it.

 

But to give you some examples, I’m extremely pessimistic about commercial real estate globally. The way people work has changed fundamentally, and it’s not going to change back. Whether the virus comes off a little bit more or whether we do get a second wave. The fundamental changes that are happening in terms of office environment, the digitization of communication. Those things are not going to turn around. So if you’re a large landlord or a sponsor of CMBX, derivative structure, you’ve got some real problems, and it does not matter where the virus is.

 

Similarly like public infrastructure. People are clearly using less trains, less buses, obviously less planes. Interesting that there could be a shift back to private car usage. We are trying to think through the secular things coming out of this.

 

And then for the virus itself, one of the most peculiar things is that there’s only probably a couple of countries globally that can truly achieve elimination, like to totally get rid of the virus within a proximate, self-contained environment. New Zealand’s a very good example of that. In Australia, the case counts are extremely low. So the rest of the world will not eliminate this thing. They’re gonna have to pick and make these really, really difficult decisions about how much of a virus risk and re-outbreak that they want to tolerate as against the imperatives of restarting the economy.

 

TN: A lot of the talk was about flattening the curve, which was about reducing the kind of overwhelming capacity going into hospitals so they could actually treat people. That flattening the curve discussion has changed to something different. And it seems to almost be approaching a zero-tolerance discussion where we have these lockdowns and people can’t go into work and make a living.

 

In the States, we recently saw Elon Musk threatened to move his company out of California to Texas potentially so that he could get his company to work. And the State of California or the county relented and let them come into work. Are we in a period where there’s selective lockdowns? Does flattening the curve mean anything anymore? What are you seeing in terms of the economy, industries?

 

GW: The thing is that a lot of companies, retail, hospitality, mass events, you know football games, basketball, things like that, they don’t really work in this model where you have social distancing. And so, you either really just have to go for full eradication. But it’s not possible in many of these places. You’re going to have to tolerate some reinfection risk and get on with it.

 

I’m very far away from the U.S., but we’re tracking it very closely state-by-state that there is sort of a polarization developing where Republican states are more inclined to try to restart the economy and sort of run this risk. Democratic states are still more tolerant of lockdown. And it seems increasingly politicized, and that’s not a great surprise given you’ve got a big event at the end of the year.

 

I’ve contrasted to Europe. When you listen to Angela Merkel, not Britain because Britain was very late and very confused in terms of their strategy. She’s a scientist by training and she explained very, very clearly that the first part of the strategy was to make sure that they didn’t blow through their ICU constraint. And now that they’ve achieved that, indeed they have flattened a curve. They’re not gunning for elimination. They know they can’t get there. And so they’re just trying to manage what’s known as the r0 so it doesn’t pop back up above one and you have a real explosive re-acceleration. But they’re having to live with it.

 

What still hasn’t necessarily gotten through to people, is that business models that worked previously don’t work anymore. It’s very hard to see how a lot of small and medium-term enterprises are going to make it out of this. And I think that’s the Chapter 3 or Chapter 4 version of it. But that’s the concern. There’ll be some winners and there’ll be some adaptation of the economy. But the legacy and the tail on this is just immense. It’s immense.

 

TN: So tell me this. Is there anything good that’s going to come out of this?

 

GW: There’s probably going to be a very significant re-think about climate change. This is going to be one of the first years where carbon emissions globally are going to fall. Effectively, it’s because we shut things down. It was the way that people actually wanted to get there. That’s probably one interesting data point. If you look at that area very closely, we’ve never been able to run a real-time experiment like this. So it will be very interesting to see how the effects sort of percolate through.

Categories
QuickHit Visual (Videos)

QuickHit: How ready is the military to face COVID-19 and its challenges?

In this QuickHit episode, we’re joined by Tate Nurkin to talk about the state of the military in COVID-19 pandemic. Tate is one of the world’s top defense and security experts, who has been in the security field for the past 20-25 years. He works for US defense and intelligence communities, allies, and partners in China and the Indo-Pacific, helping with defense technology to improve the future of military capabilities globally.

 

In our previous QuickHit episodes we covered the oil & gas industry:

 

The views and opinions expressed in this QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

 

Show Notes

 

Tony: One of the key things that I’m curious about is the impact of COVID on militaries and their readiness. We’re not hearing a lot about that. Are you seeing anything there? Do you have any worries? Is that something that will last a few months or years into the future?

 

Tate: There are definitely some short-term implications for militaries and readiness is at the top of the list.

 

We saw a fair amount of media coverage of the situation on the USS Theodore Roosevelt, which actually was a pretty big deal. Over a thousand members of that 5,000-person crew were diagnosed with COVID 19. One passed away.

 

Those incidences are happening, not just with the Theodore Roosevelt. It’s happened on another US Navy ship and it’s happened on a French aircraft carrier. Just like cruise ships, these ships are places where you’re very contained and in close contact with other people who may be carrying the disease. It’s easy for the disease to spread.

 

We’ve also seen it with the Taiwanese Navy. Taiwan did a fantastic job containing the crisis, but they have friendship fleet missions that go to the South Pacific. The most recent one came back from Palau. A bunch of sailors who came off that mission were diagnosed after they had gone out into Taiwan and mingled around.

 

These are big issues. These ships, predominantly ship forces deployed throughout the world, must strike a balance between keeping people safe during peacetime, and also making sure that there’s operational readiness. It’s something that not just the US military has struggled with today.

 

 

Tony: Do you see that we’re going to be contending with this for years? Or do you think we’ll get over this in a matter of months or say a year or so?

 

 

Tate: I would put the time frame for the readiness challenge to be slightly shorter, 18 months maybe. It depends on how long, how many waves there are of outbreaks.

 

I certainly anticipate a second wave globally at least. I think that’s a shorter-term challenge and one that’s a little bit more manageable if you can come up with the right processes and procedures for what precautions to take. But it’s not just with deployed troops, but also with sheriffs working inside the Pentagon or civilians that are also supporting the defense enterprise.

 

There are longer-term challenges though. Some of what we’ve seen are militaries thinking about the new missions that they have to undertake. In the short term, this is supporting COVID-19 response and the longer term, refugee monitoring, border security, etc.. They’re outside of the direct defense sector and more in the security sector. But there are some new missions that the militaries will have to grapple with and a new, different sense of preparedness that will have to be dealt with.

 

 

Tony: In terms of things to grapple with, I’m just wondering about things like social unrest. We’ve seen a lot of economic fallout from this as people have to sit on the sidelines for months, as the industries have stopped, as things like deflation have set in with wages… There are not just the social aspects of being isolated, but the economic impacts also. What I wonder about is social unrest. Is that something that we really don’t need to worry about? Or is that something that you take seriously?

 

 

Tate: I tend to try and navigate the spectrum between alarmism and dismissiveness. In this case, some finding somewhere in between, but maybe on the side closer to the alarmism. This is a big deal. There will be spatial and economic repercussions and some states won’t be particularly well equipped to handle those. Whether it’s overturning of regimes or just extraordinary societal and political pressure on regimes.

 

Asia is a good place to start. Some will be more resilient than others. But this is a big challenge for defense and security communities and for political establishments for sure. Reshoring supply chains, including the defense supply chain, will just amplify some of those pressures.

 

 

Tony: Amplify the pressures in the manufacturing countries today, so the Asian countries?

 

 

Tate: Some of the Asian countries. Japan, for example, has $2.2 billion that were built into it. Most recent supplemental budget for reshoring supply chains out of China. Some of the others will get to Southeast Asia, some will go back to Japan. But the reshuffling of supply chains and the defense supply chain is not immune to that at all. This is something to keep an eye on for both defense readiness and for political stability issues.

 

 

Tony: In terms of that separation of supply chains, it almost sounds like it’s the opposite of the EU spirit. The EU came together with the Coal and Steel Union, then integrated manufacturing. The theory was, as they became integrated, there was less likelihood of conflict in Europe. Am I exaggerating? Is it the opposite of the EU theory and maybe something that you see dangerous over a 5, 10, 15, 20-year horizon? Is it near-term or longer-term? Where do you see conflict happening?

 

 

Tate: Returning to that defense supply chain as somewhat of an analog for the broader challenge. A couple of years ago, the administration commissioned a report on weakness in the US Defense supply chain. And one of the big findings was that the US Defense supply chain was over-relying on the competitor, which is China. Some chemicals that go in some ammunition and other materials are largely sourced out of China.

 

The answer here is to re-shore some critical supply chains. We’ve learned that with the medical supplies most recently. Part of the solution is to find your trusted partners and also to stick with them. And some of that can be regional.

 

One of the challenges coming out of COVID 19 is a geopolitical one, and it’s meeting the challenge of China on a lot of levels. And for the US, retreating back towards autarky might not be the right answer. We need to find the things that we absolutely have to have. Find the partners that we can trust, and try to engage them so that you have some partners to deal with, this is much broader challenge.

Categories
Visual (Videos)

What negative oil prices mean for the COVID-19 economy

 

There was a worldwide shock when U.S. ended with negative oil prices for May contracts. It dropped to minus 38 dollars a barrel this week, crashing into negative territory for the first time in history.

 

While demand has dried up as the COVID-19 pandemic paralyzes economies and keeps people at home,… excess supply is in limbo not helped by an intense price war between Russia and Saudi Arabia.

 

What do these ultra-low oil prices mean for producers and what does it tell us about the world economy as it grapples with the coronavirus?

 

Today, we’re joined by Dr. Graham Ong-Webb who joins us from Singapore’s Nanyang University and Tony Nash, CEO and Founder of Complete Intelligence.

Arirang interview on negative oil prices

 

Show Transcript

AN: We start an in-depth discussion with experts from around the world. There was a worldwide shock when US oil contracts for May dropped to minus $38 a barrel this week, crashing into negative territory for the first time in history. While demand has dried up, has the COVID-19 pandemic paralyzes economies and keeps people at home? Excess supply is in limbo, not helped by an intense price war between Russia and Saudi Arabia. What do these ultra low oil prices mean for producers?And what does it tell us about the world’s economy as it grapples with the Corona virus? Today, we’re joined by Dr. Gray Ong WebB, who joins us from Singapore’s Nanyang Technological University. And Tony Nash, CEO and founder of Complete Intelligence.

 

AN: My first question to you, Dr. Ong-Webb. First, what caused the US oil prices this week to fall to such historically low levels?

 

OW: Well, we’ve seen the slashing of oil prices all around West Texas and intermediate and global crude oil have plummeted because of the severe price for it occurred over the weekend, particularly led by Saudi Arabia that sought to slash oil prices by about four to seven dollars a barrel. And this price war was triggered by the implosion of the OPEC Plus Alliance a week before between, in terms of the breakdown in the orchestration between Russia and OPEC led by Saudi Arabia trying to come to an agreement about the cut in production. As you know, previously there was no agreement to cut production by 7 million barrels.

 

OW: But of course, the Russians withdrew from this discussion with the concern that this would be using a lot of space to U.S. shale oil companies to occupy the gap. So Saudi Arabia went onto this price war, which then triggered a cascade into negative territory, which was, as you mentioned, unprecedented in history. But really, I think this is the story about the collapse in oil prices is a confluence of a lot of factors that you can discuss today. This is a very interesting industry, as you know, because of the way the oil sector is set up.

 

AN: Right. In Russia and Saudi Arabia, they did come to an agreement eventually. But people are saying that the OPEC’s decision to cut oil production came much too late. And while, Mr. Nash, all eyes are now on the futures contracts for June, but that really hasn’t been much cause for optimism has that admit this pandemic can as for calls for a swift economic recovery get thinner and thinner. Actually, some analysts are saying that oil prices for JUne, they could actually fall to minus a $100 per barrel. What’s your take on this?

 

TN: No, I think it really all depends on how soon economies get back to work. We have a couple of states here in the US, Georgia and Tennessee, that have said that they’ll get back on line very soon, possibly by next week. So if other states follow them, I think you’ll start to see demand pulled and crude oil pulled along with that demand if it gets started. If it gets pushed back in the president’s daily briefing, he just said today that they may consider, you know, pushing some of these social distancing and other requirements further into the summer if the state level economies stay as locked up as they’ve been.

 

TN: I think it yeah, it could be pretty terrible for crude oil and it could be pretty terrible for most commodities. So, again, it really all depends on how quickly the countries around the world get back to work. And it really depends on the local governments as well as the national governments making those decisions to put people back to work. What’s interesting here in the states is we’ve started to see people protest in cities across the country to get back to work. And so there is a couple of restaurants here in Houston, a couple of businesses around the country that are insisting that they stay open. A restaurant here in Houston will start sitting people this Friday night.

 

AN: And the businesses may want to go back to normal. But, well, it looks like demand might not pick up quickly, I mean. But then this also isn’t just a U.S. problem as you mentioned. Brent crude has been faring better than U.S. shale for sure, but it’s also taking a hit amid a supply glut lessened by the price for that Dr. Webb just mentioned between Russia and Saudi Arabia. And when in this situation when demand has plunged as much as 30 percent globally and as much as 70 percent in countries like India could Brent also flip negative do you think, Mr. Nash?

 

TN: Now, look, the reason that Brent that WTI went negative was it’s a function of the exchange that it trades on and on the NYMEX exchange, they let those prices go negative because of, partly because of physical delivery of crude oil. But WTI also traded on the ICE exchange where Brent is traded. And the ICE exchange didn’t let WTI go negative. They let it go to zero. So I think the worst case we’ll see for Brent is a zero price simply because the exchange won’t let the price go below zero or they haven’t let it go below zero. So if ICE, if the Inter Intercontinental Exchange stands in the way of seeing negative Brent prices, then you just won’t see negative Brent prices and they’ll stop trading.

 

AN: So you think that there might be some kinds of intervention going on there? Dr. Ong-Webb, well, OPEC is due to start cutting supply by 9.7 million barrels per day, and that would be reducing about 10 percent of global supply from May 1st. That is a historic cut. But do you think that’s enough?

 

OW: I can clearly, the answer is no. Whether you are your own oil expert or whether you’re an observer of markets and how the global economic machinery is moving, or in this case has seized, it’s come to a grinding to a halt. Well, the answer is, as I mentioned, no. I mean, we know for the month of April we’re seeing a reduction in terms of demand by about a factor of three to the agreed all production cuts by the cartels by 9.7 million barrels. Also we’re looking at 30 million barrels less consumed in April. So clearly that’s an indication that first, we have a cuts, if you like, not enough. And there will have to be, whether we like it or not, all cuts along the way, simply because in allusion to his point about storage capacity, which is an important factor in the price equation of oil, is that there’s just no way to put oil anymore. I mean, tankers are filled to the brim. I mean, 60 percent of storage capacity globally is being filled up by the end of April, I think, by the beginning of May, there’ll be just simply nowhere else to put the oil. And so, there will have to be a slash in production. But this is just an easy thing to say because of the complexities of the way in which oil is produced, the infrastructure behind oil. We can’t simply just turn off the taps. And the oil production companies know this, that if fields are closed, they’re just simply difficult to reopen and we’re unlikely to resume them and achieve the prior optimalities in production. I mean, you can get back to those production capacities again. So a lot of push and pull factors at play here.

 

AN: So really the last major oil export. There is an incredible amount of pressure. And Dr. Ong-Webb, the oil crisis in the mid 1980s actually preceded the fall of the Soviet Union or made the pace rapid. If global oil prices remain around the $20 threshold, then which economies are going to be in hot water?

 

OW: Well, it all depends, right? So in the case of I mean, maybe Tony could speak to this more than I could about what’s happening in the US. On the reports I’m reading, I think thirty US dollars a barrel would help keep things afloat, literally. $30 a barrel or below, this will lead to more job cuts, especially to minor players in the oil industry are going to fall and lots of medium-sized and small producers in the US. Even in a place like in the Gulf states, where large margins are required because of the government’s subsidies and whatnot. I think quite a few golf econ might also. That it all depends. But clearly, despite the pursuit of more production efficiencies, especially the kind of efficiency we saw come out from all the previous oil slump in 2014, there is this complete collapse in demand and there’s no way of getting around that. And companies are going to fall. Jobs are going to be lost. And we just have to find a way to do to stave this off.

 

AN: And Mr. Nash, while hundreds of companies in the US, all companies are going to be very hardly hit by this decline in consumer demand, and also this is going to affect thousands and thousands of jobs. How do you think this is going to affect the pace of recovery of the US economy from this pandemic recession?

 

TN: Yeah, again, I think since this is a global government shutdown, really the pace is completely affected by the rate at which governments release these curves. I think if they don’t release the curves, if they don’t allow people to go to work, I think it becomes more and more difficult to have a quick recovery, even remotely quick recovery.

 

TN: I don’t want to unnecessarily paint a doomsday scenario, but the longer we stay at home, the longer we don’t allow planes to fly in the sky, ocean vessels to move, we don’t have demand in food markets, demand in other markets, it really damages every industry. It’s not just crude oil. I think that the key thing that we have to keep in mind here is that U.S. crude companies appear to be more damaged simply because they’re more transparent.

 

TN: Most of the oil and gas companies globally are state-owned, so they’re national oil companies. So there really isn’t the visibility to their performance and their expenses that you get with U.S. energy companies. So make no mistake, those companies are hurting just as bad. And when you look at companies like Saudi Arabia, Iran, so on and so forth, those guys have to be making $60 a barrel or more in order to pay off their bills every month to run their governments.

 

TN: So while we talk about, say, fracking cost it 20, 30, 40 dollars a barrel, when you look at the fiscal position of many of these Gulf states and even Russia, Russia’s very expensive to operate, until they’re making $60 a barrel or more, they’re actually losing money. So these guys can not afford to play this game very long. And I think they played their card at the wrong time because there’s a global demand problem at the same time that they’re trying to fight this war. So really, they’re hurting the U.S., but they’re really hurting themselves just as bad or worse.

 

AN: Exactly. And that’s very clear that the historically low oil prices will affect all global players. But it seems that Saudi Arabia and Russia, they all vying for this all supremacy, and Dr. Ong-Webb, just before you go, if that’s the case, do you think it’s worth? And over the coming months, who do you think has the biggest chance of emerging victorious?

 

OW: Well, it’s really hard to say. I think I agree with Tony that I think there are no winners in this game. And that’s that’s a problem we are facing today. We’re in the new normal. A lot of the previous assumptions or principles that govern competition, economic and political competition, are actually hurting us instead, because a lot of things that we have to do today are counterintuitive. And we are in an unchartered territory. Countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia are simply just following their political strategic instincts, if you like, which have served them well in the past, perhaps, but not anymore today.

 

OW: And so I think they’re not only going to hurt themselves. They’re going to have a further contribute to the further negative impact on the global economy. Clearly, there will be some winners out of this. If you’re in a storage business, I suppose especially oil tankers, I think its glory days for you right now, maybe momentarily. And of course, you’re energy hungry, oil importer perhaps, some have savings there. But then again, because of the collapse in demand, I mean, not much had either. Until the national economies and the global economy starts to move again and people are moving around naturally and buying things, buying services, I think all of us are going to continue to be hurt.

 

AN: So really, oil prices are really dependent on demand and we’re not seeing much of that and it looks like it won’t be coming back in in the near future.

Categories
Editorials

What nowcasts and unique datasets can tell tech about the coming economic shockwave

This article about nowcast is originally published in Protocol.com at this link https://www.protocol.com/nowcasts-forecast-economic-downturn-coronavirus

 

We are living through an economic event with few historical parallels. There is no playbook for shutting down many of the world’s largest economies, nor starting them back up again. But data-mining tech startups are searching out insights in unlikely places, trying to make sense of the global pandemic.

 

These companies are mining specialized datasets, from the prices of beef rounds and chuck, to traffic levels, to the volume of crude oil stored in tanks. Using a mix of machine-learning techniques, they’re spinning this data into “nowcasts”: small, nearly real-time insights that can help analyze the present or very near future. They’re far faster, more granular and more esoteric than the monthly or quarterly data drops provided by the U.S. government. Nowcasts originated in meteorology but are now being applied in economics, and the unpredictability of weather has never been more relevant to the economic outlook.

 

To glean key tech industry takeaways from the coming shifts, Protocol chatted with three data tech startups about the niche datasets they use to analyze economic events and consumer behavior.

 

One of them, Complete Intelligence, has attempted to build a proxy for the global economy that includes market data from over 700 commodities, equity indexes and currencies. Orbital Insight uses global satellite imagery to gather data on large-scale changes in traffic patterns, the business of marine ports, the movement of airplanes, and pings from cell phones and connected cars. And Gro Intelligence specializes in data related to global agriculture: crops and commodities, foreign exchange rates, and the supply and demand of food products.

 

Since these firms tend to shy away from spinning their nowcasts into takeaways (leaving that to their clients), Protocol also enlisted economists to help analyze the data and compare findings with traditional models.

 

Here’s what may be in store for tech over the coming months.

 

Top-level takeaways

 

The U.S. economy was relatively strong going into the outbreak of COVID-19. And that’s a key differentiator between this pandemic and past downturns: This is, first and foremost, a health crisis that’s spilling over into the economy — meaning that how well the economy recovers will depend heavily on what we learn about and how we handle the virus.

 

The wide range of responses to the pandemic — differing by country and, especially in the U.S., by region — mean that economic recovery will likely be protracted and uneven.

 

The U.S. is currently seeing this play out first hand in the way various states have implemented social-distancing measures. Gro Intelligence’s data showed that prices of beef rounds and chuck — which are more prevalent in home cooking — were at all-time highs in March as restaurants shut down across the country. But by using cell phone ping data, Orbital Insight found that things weren’t quite so uniform. It zeroed in on three cities representing three different stages of the pandemic — San Francisco, New York and New Orleans — then measured the percentage of time people stayed within 100 meters of their home each day. During the second half of March, the average resident of New York stayed home close to 85% of the time; in New Orleans, it was around 75%.

 

“When there is uneven distancing, there will be uneven recovery from the health crisis and therefore the economic crisis,” Krishna Kumar, senior economist and director of international research at RAND, told Protocol over email. “This might wreak havoc with cross-state goods, people movement and domestic travel.”

A heat map of San Francisco

San Francisco’s downtown is normally crowded with people, as the yellow areas on this map indicate. But after a shelter-in-place was ordered in mid-March, business districts emptied out.Image: Courtesy of Orbital Insight

 

Combine that with the far-reaching policy rollouts in the U.S. — such as individual stimulus checks, SBA loans and Federal Reserve actions — and there are a host of variables that could make the next few months difficult to predict. The stimulus may help spark a quicker recovery, but that trajectory depends on how long the downturn lasts. Experts agree that too much help could launch another crisis.

 

“A key reason for a more rapid decline in the unemployment rate from the near-term peak is the unprecedented size and speed of the fiscal and monetary response to this adverse shock, which contains measures aimed at maintaining payrolls,” researchers wrote in an April report from Deutsche Bank shared with Protocol, which addresses GDP model implications for the U.S. unemployment rate. The report forecasts the labor market returning to more normal levels of unemployment by the end of 2021 (4.4% by the last quarter of 2021 and 4% a year later), while the protracted scenario suggests the labor market won’t normalize until well into 2023.

 

Corporate debt levels hit an all-time high of $13.5 trillion at the end of 2019, and economists worry that too large a government bailout could spark a default crisis down the road — or even a corporate version of the subprime mortgage crisis.

 

“There’s a danger that we can lend carelessly,” Kumar said. “We just have to be prudent in bailing out the businesses that have future prospects and have returns to show.” He added that after the 2008-’09 financial crisis, banks in China lent heavily and, 12 years later, the time of reckoning might have finally come for those loans. “We can learn from that and make sure that we don’t end up having a state of default.”

 

Complete Intelligence’s algorithms suggest that deflation is likely already happening in China and parts of Europe as a result of COVID-19. But the data also posits that the U.S. may avoid outright deflation. The Federal Reserve has “taken unprecedented steps to inject liquidity — it stands ready to buy even junk bonds,” Kumar said. “These steps are even stronger than the ones implemented during the Great Recession of 2008. At least for now, it doesn’t look like the liquidity pipes are freezing.”

 

Oil storage statistics can also signify broader consumer economic indicators like consumption, and as of April 14, there’d been a 5% increase in crude oil stored in floating-roof tanks around the world over the past 30 days alone. (The startup applies computer vision to satellite imagery to analyze the tanks’ shadows to glean their volume.) While lower prices are good for consumers, they’ll also add to deflationary pressures, according to Kumar — and the U.S. energy sector will take a hit, likely putting a dent in GDP.

 

And a GDP hit likely translates to an impact on the already-growing unemployment rate. Using Okun’s law, a common rule of thumb for the relationship between gross national product and unemployment rate, the Deutsche Bank researchers worked out an updated economic forecast. “Our baseline parameterization,” the researchers wrote, “has the unemployment rate peak at over 17% in April — a new post-World War II high, before falling to around 7% by year end. Under a protracted pandemic scenario, the unemployment rate remains above 10% through all of 2020.”

 

What tech leaders should know

 

For one, expect less pricing power and lower margins. With the businesses shuttering across the country and high unemployment numbers, consumers by and large will have less to spend with. This could lead to supply surpluses, and in the world of tech, electronics manufacturers in particular will need to cut down on production, said Tony Nash, founder and CEO of Complete Intelligence. That will likely hit China, where a considerable amount of tech manufacturing still takes place, hard. As executives calibrate capacity and inventory, production runs will likely shrink alongside pricing power.

 

What happens in the U.S. may not affect a company as much as what happens in the global market. That could be especially true for tech companies with traditionally large sales volumes in Europe and Asia. Complete Intelligence’s machine-learning platform predicts that consumer price indexes in Europe will fall into negative territory later this year, but that deflation won’t hit the U.S. as hard as it will Europe and Asia.

 

“When China shut down, Apple had to shutter many of its stores, and Apple was one of the earliest companies in the country to feel the pain of the virus — because of the global output,” Kumar said.

 

COVID-19’s spread across the globe has come in waves, and that makes it difficult to predict its effect on the global supply chain. But experts say one time-honored strategy remains true: Diversification is key. And individual companies’ rates of recovery may depend largely on how localized their supply chains are.

 

That’s partly due to manufacturing delays that could stem from additional waves of the virus in other countries. But countries’ self-interests also play a role, Kumar said. “After 2008, many countries enacted protectionist measures,” he said. “And if they’re not able to import easily, first it’s going to increase the cost of our imports, and second, we might not even have the local capacity.” For example, there are almost no smartphone and laptop screens manufactured in the U.S.

 

We’ll also likely see tech companies prioritize different geographical supply chain footprints for future generations of products. Alongside this shift, tech giants will also likely take a harder look at which jobs they’re able to automate.

 

“We’re hearing more and more electronics manufacturers moving their manufacturing out of China, and what I’m seeing in data especially — at least for the U.S. — is moving to Mexico,” Nash said. “We don’t expect people to necessarily move their current generation of goods out of China, but as they move to new generations of goods, they’ll look for other places to de-risk those supply chains. So they may have an Asia version of that product that they continue to make there, but they may have regional manufacturing footprints for North America, for Europe and so on, so they don’t have to be as reliant.”

 

The shifts won’t just affect how things are made but also what’s being made in the first place. Necessity is the mother of all invention, as the old adage goes, and there’s a reason why so many side-gig-friendly platforms like Airbnb and Uber sprung from the last financial crisis.

 

And that’s not to mention the overhaul of how we work that many are already experiencing. We may see even traditional companies increase leniency on existing remote work and parental-leave policies, according to Kumar.

 

Conflicting recovery forecasts

 

Predictions of what recovery will look like are akin to trying to predict snowstorms in the summer.

 

Gro Intelligence CEO Sara Menker told Protocol that the U.S. could see a V-shaped recovery, similar to China’s, but that’s more likely the sooner recovery begins. Menker does concede that due to the two countries’ substantially different strategies addressing the pandemic, it’s difficult to know when we’ll be on the up-and-up again. One insight supporting the beginnings of recovery in China: the price of white feather broiler chickens. They’re a breed served almost exclusively in restaurants, and the prices now seem to be entering a V-shaped recovery after a precipitous decline. You can even track it against the reopening of Apple stores: Gro’s data shows white feather broiler prices in China started to rebound around March 6 and a clear price spike around time Apple stores reopened in China on March 13.

 

On the other hand, Orbital Insight CEO James Crawford predicts a more linear recovery, based partly on satellite imagery of roads in China’s urban centers. “In Beijing, for example, we’re not seeing a V-shaped recovery in traffic patterns,” he told Protocol. “It’s been very much a linear return, with less than half the cars on the roads now compared to pre-COVID activity levels. Although the evolution of shelter-in-place was and will be different stateside, businesses should plan for a gradual rebuild in activity as confidence grows among wary consumers.”

 

And, using global economic data like CPIs and predictions surrounding the strength of the U.S. dollar, Nash forecasts a slower recovery. “Whether you’re looking at equity markets or commodity markets, what we’re seeing from our platform is a slow return,” he said. Nash predicts volatility over the next four or five months along with the beginnings of a sustainable uptick in July — though, he said, that won’t necessarily mean a straight upward line, as there are a number of other consumption considerations involved: whether school will start again in the fall, whether football season will be reinstated, whether people can trick or treat in October, whether there are holiday parties in December. “That will define the rate at which we come back,” he said.

 

The true shape of the recovery to come is probably somewhere in the middle, according to Kumar. It’s likely too optimistic to expect a V-shaped recovery, but the more pessimistic prediction — several months of stagnation — “assumes that we can never get a grip on this disease, and given that social distancing seems to be broadly working, I think that’s too pessimistic,” Kumar said. And that’s not to mention the stimulus boost enacted by the federal government. The spark here wasn’t a financial system collapse; it was an economic shutdown. He predicts a more “checkmark-shaped” recovery, with a precipitous drop followed by a less steep, drawn-out upward slope.

 

But rolling back social distancing guidelines too early could sideline recovery as soon as it begins. Some scientists believe the potential impact of colder temperatures on the virus’ spread could lead to a second wave of infections in the fall, and even optimistic projections suggest a vaccine won’t be available until 2021.

 

“The uncertainty that we see in the health care crisis, you’re going to keep seeing in the economy,” Kumar said. “You can get sick very fast, but you’re going to recover much more slowly from your sickness. And that’s what’s going to dictate the economic pattern.”

Categories
Visual (Videos)

World economy, industries changing amid COVID-19

 

The world faces an unprecedented economic crisis as shops and businesses, factories and entire communities have been put under lockdown due to the coronavirus pandemic. Governments are doing their best to cushion the blow and keep their economies intact, but many people say things won’t be going back to normal… even when this pandemic is over. According to them we are in a “new normal.” To see how economies and industries across the world are already shifting to this new reality, we connect with Dr. Larry Samuelson, Professor of Economics at Yale University, Tony NASH, CEO and Founder of Complete Intelligence, and Dr. Graham Ong-Webb who joins us from Singapore’s Nanyang University.

 

Interview Notes

 

AN: My first question to Dr. Samuelson, which industries do you think will struggle to recover after this pandemic and even despite the huge sums of money being poured into them right now to try and keep them afloat?

 

LS: The huge sums of money are designed to get the industries through this initial period when much of the world is locked down and firms’ whole industries have no obvious or no steady source of revenue. Once we are past that, hopefully we see some opening of economies soon, we still have a recession on our hands. And at that point I would say that consumer confidence is the key thing to monitor it’s difficult to recover that under an ordinary recession. Now we’re gonna have to recover that in the midst of still dealing with the coronavirus.

 

We won’t have the virus behind us until we have a vaccine, which looks like it’s perhaps a year off and so we’re gonna have to try to reopen our economies where people are still worrying about the virus. So now we can ask about industries the ones that will fare best are those that people can reasonably, safely interact with. We expect retail some education to fare better than say mass sporting events and confine travel in that respect.

 

Can also look at which industries represent activities, purchase is that people ordinarily do that they have deferred and which are discretionary. The deferred ones we might expect to come back fairly quickly. As a frivolous example think of all the haircuts people are going to need when they come out of lockdown. Things like automobile purchases durables home maintenance might be in the same category. More discretionary items like travel are going to take a longer time to come back.

 

 

AN: So what you’re saying is that recovery will really depend on consumer sentiment and it looks like the sort of high-touch industries where you know and where it involves travel or social contacts those are going to be a bit slower to recover? Well Dr. Webb the, European Union they’ve agreed on a 500 billion dollar stimulus plan to protect workers businesses and their Nations in light of this pandemic but they haven’t been able to agree on issuing debt to raise long-term financing for the region what do you
make of this still is it really enough for the region?

 

OW: Well it appears to be clearly insufficient for for the requirements of what stands to be a 19 trillion dollar economy. We think about the European Union. 27 countries as a collective this is second largest economy you know in PPP terms after China. And so you know the amount of – a billion dollars pales in comparison to what other national economies are injecting in terms of stimulus packages to stave off the risk of a severe economic crippling, mass layoffs and so forth.

 

So I think the ECB was right to to campaign for about 1.5 trillion dollars and clearly we’ve ended up with 500 billion dollars and that’s not going to be near enough to what the region needs. But nevertheless, yes, there is this big issue in the backdrop of who’s gonna finance or finance all of this. And this is clearly a follow-on discussion from the one we had last week about the global debt crisis right. So no basic were looking at trade-offs here, which trade-off are we willing to live with, the one where we deal with or crisis now in terms of mass unemployment, crippling economies, whether we deal with a lengthy debt crisis down the road, you know, sort of alleviating the pain today.

 

So I think this is an ongoing discussion but clearly the $500 package is a compromise, a severe one. Southern European states have compromised themselves. They’d rather get something rather than nothing. But clearly it’s insufficient in terms of what’s already percolating in terms of small and medium enterprises folding up as we speak, people losing their jobs because of the slump in demand are all around for range of services and inability for those services to to actually meet consumer needs because of the of the lockdown.

 

 

AN: So it looks like there may be more coming out of the EU as this pandemic progresses and the economies continue to be hurt. Well Dr. Nash, here in East Asia China has actually restarted its economy factories are back online and lockdowns on cities even Wuhan they’ve been east. But with the rest of the world they closed for business. Many say that China is actually in for a second supply shock. What’s your your take on this?

 

TN: Sure. Our biggest worry about China, well, we have a number of them but we’re actually worried about the fall in manufacturing. The industrial production collapse in China that we see coming starting in, say, April and then going into third quarter should be unfortunately pretty damaging to China’s economy. We expect to see deflation starting in April, May in China. It’s not like 10 or 20 percent. It’s kind of half a percent, but still once you start to dip your toe into deflation, it can be pretty dangerous, so starting and then stopping.

 

The thing that we have to remember with all of these economies is that these are government-mandated shutdowns of the economies. These are not market failures. And so the EU issues 500 billion dollars and euros for a fiscal plan. It’s not the small companies, even the large companies’ fault that this is happening. So the governments have and will continue to push money into the economy because they know that this is their fault. It’s their responsibility. The companies aren’t failing. It’s the government that’s failed the companies by not having a plan and not having the resources in place to manage this.

 

 

AN: So that’s no need for such huge pessimism, I suppose. So you think that as long as the government’s take the right actions and the full might I mean that the second supply shock or another sort of sort of impact might not be as big. Well Dr. Samuelson some say that China could employ what some call it a trap diplomacy either by seizing other country’s assets or forgiving that to boost its soft power if it does employ this kind of tactic then could we see the world order actually change?

 

LS: We have to remember that the question of debt-trap diplomacy was here well before the pandemic. Critics of China have been concerned about this for some time. I don’t have a good idea. It’s very hard to say whether the pandemic is going to exacerbate. The concerns people have about debt-trap diplomacy, it might if it puts other countries that China is dealing with in a particularly adverse position. But it might not. It’s having an effect on China. That may make things more difficult for them.

 

I think more important is to remember that when we talk about debt trap diplomacy, we tend to think of international trade of economic relations between countries as a competitive or an antagonistic activity, where the most important thing to keep in mind is that international trade is at its heart a cooperative activity. We engage in it because countries on both sides gain from international trade.

 

As China invests in other countries, as it deals in other countries, it acquires some influence in those countries and some people are worried about that. That’s where the term debt trap diplomacy comes from. But it also becomes linked to those countries and has an interest in those countries and that creates a force going the other way. I think on balance it’s important to remember that there are some real gains to our world economy.

 

Some risk, some supply chain risks, that we have seen. Some political risks that some people worry about. But on that I think there are real gains from having the International economy linked together. We see these gains in terms of our economic well-being. I think we see these gains in terms of our political well-being as well. Countries, as they trade, as they deal with one another, tend to have common interests that in the long run are good for all of us.

 

 

AN: Well, so we really need to see more cooperation and continuous trade between nations especially in times of economic crises. Well Dr. Ron Webb, how do you expect this tug of war between the US and China to play out during this pandemic, especially as their bilateral relations worsen because of the COVID-19 pandemic?

 

OW: Well, you know the future is contingent clearly. But I think in terms of the current trajectory, it looks like this tug of war, this ongoing bilateral trade war between these two economic juggernauts, will continue unabated I mean from the recent news reports of President Trump’s speeches and his articulations on the issue, it’s quite clear that the US administration is doubling down on its protectionist measures against not only China but also even the European Union and also Mexico.

 

So I think the COVID-19 challenge which is having an impact of across various domains including economics and technology and so forth will continue without much foreseeable change. I think this effects you know the global economy. It has been even pre COVID, but I think it’s not helping the situation whatsoever in the current climate.

 

 

AN: Right. So, we expect these technological sort of competition and the sort of trade disputes that we’ve seen in the past, they’re not just going to stop short because of this pandemic that’s going on. They’re going to continue. Nevertheless, well just before we go,  Mr. Nash, some say that there could be a rebound in the latter half of the year. When do you think the worst of this pandemic
will be over on the economy?

 

TN: Yeah, I think it really depends. I think it depends on a country’s ability to issue a fiscal stimulus. I think it depends on the concentration of manufacturing of those economies, and I think it depends on let’s say workforce flexibility. So, with those, I think China is not in a great position. I think China is going to have a very rough year ahead. The official data may not report it, but we envision a very rough year ahead for China.

 

We think Europe will have a rough third and fourth quarter. Of course, late in the fourth quarter, we see Europe starting to come out of this. But both of those are constrained because they don’t have a U.S. dollar basis to issue fiscal stimulus. Their companies have U.S. dollar debt and their countries are having to borrow US dollars into their Treasuries in order to keep trade and other things going. So they have real problems.

 

The US has already issued 2.2 trillion fiscal stimuli plus a lot more from the Fed. And so, the US has had the ability to stimulate the economy. It hasn’t really had traction yet. But of the three kinds of general regions, what we’re seeing is the US, although they’re all very difficult situations on a relative basis, we see the US doing much, much better because of the US’s ability to issue fiscal stimulus and to play monetary policy with the US dollar. So the US dollar is a huge asset for the US.

 

The large millennial bracket is a huge asset for the US. It’s a workforce that’s actually contributing to the overall dependency ratio and then the ability for US companies to pull their manufacturing back to North America, this is not absolute it doesn’t mean a hundred percent, but some manufacturing will certainly be diverted to Mexico for a number of reasons, and we see that taking catching pace in, say, q3 and q4. And that allows the US to do more value-added activities through the course of recovery.

 

AN: Right. Well, each region is going to have its own challenges and an unprecedented pandemic really does bring unprecedented complexities when it comes to recovery. Well I’m afraid that’s all we have time for today it’s been a very great discussion.

Categories
QuickHit Visual (Videos)

QuickHit: 2 Things Oil & Gas Companies Need to Do Right Now to Win Post Pandemic

This week’s QuickHit, Tony Nash speaks with Geoffrey Cann, a digital transformation expert for oil & gas companies, about what he considers as “the worst downturn” for the industry. What should these companies do in a time like this to emerge as a winner?

 

Watch the previous QuickHit episode on how healthy are banks in this COVID-19 era with Dave Mayo, CEO and Founder of FedFis.

 

The views and opinions expressed in this QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

Show Notes

TN: Hi, everybody. This is Tony Nash with Complete Intelligence. This is one of our QuickHits, which is a quick 5-minute discussion about a very timely topic.

 

Today we’re sitting with Geoffrey Cann. Geoffrey Cann is a Canadian author and oil industry expert and talks about technology and the oil and gas sector.

 

So Geoffrey, thanks so much for being with us today. Do you mind just taking 30 seconds and letting us know a little bit more about you?

 

GC: Oh, sure. Thank you so much, Tony, and thank you for inviting me to join your QuickHit program.

 

So my background, I was a partner with Deloitte in the management consulting area for the better part of 20 years, 30 years altogether. I had an early career with Imperial Oil and I’ve spent most of my career helping oil and gas companies when they face critical challenges.

 

These days, the challenge I was focusing on prior to the pandemic was the adoption of digital innovation into oil and gas because the industry does lag in this adoption curve and yet the technology offers tremendous potential to the sector. I see my mission, and it still doesn’t change just because of the pandemic, as the adoption of digital innovations to assist the industry and to resolve some of its most intractable problems. That’s what I do.

 

 

TN: Wow. Sounds impressive. I’m looking at the downturn in oil and gas and the downturn in prices. There have been big layoffs and cost savings efforts and these sorts of things with oil and gas firms. And, typically, a pullback is an opportunity for the industry to re-evaluate itself and try to figure out the way ahead. Are we there with oil and gas? Do we expect major changes, and as we emerge from the current pullback, how do we expect oil and gas to emerge? We expect more technology to be there. Do we expect more efficiency in productivity? Are there other changes that we expect as we come out of this?

 

 

GC: I’m pessimistic about the prospects for oil and gas and it’s driven by this collapse and available capital and cash flow to the industry.

 

When the industry hits this kind of survival mode, there’s a standard playbook that you dust off. And that playbook includes trimming your capital, canceling projects, downsizing staff, closing facilities, squeezing the supply chain, trimming the dividend. Anything that is considered an investment in the future is put on hold until the industry can get back on its feet.

 

And this is the worst downturn. I’ve lived through six of these. This is the worst I’ve seen.

 

Certainly sharpest, fastest, and deepest and coupled it with the over excess production in the industry. When the industry comes out of the other end of the pandemic, what we’re going to see the industry do is devote its capital to putting its feet back on the ground and getting back into its normal rhythm. But what that means is all the changes that our potential out there are likely to have been set aside in the interim.

 

 

TN: If you were to have your way, and if you were running all the oil companies, and they were to make some changes in this time, what would those changes be? What would some of those key changes be?

 

 

GC: There is a gap between what other industries have discovered, learned, and are adopting, and where oil and gas is at. That gap is, first, needs to be addressed by raising the understanding and the capability and the capacity in oil and gas to deal with the possibilities presented by these technologies. And so there’s task number one that oil and gas companies can absolutely do even during a downturn. Just train people and get them across the newer concepts or newer ideas.

 

A second possibility is to embrace the foundational elements that have proven to be the key success factor for so many other industries. One of those would be cloud computing. The adoption of cloud-based infrastructure, moving data into the cloud, is not costly, it generates an immediate payback because cloud infrastructure is so cheap, and it puts the company into a solid position for when the normal day-to-day running of it gets back in gear, the investments it may have been making an in digital innovation can all now be brought back into stride because this foundational technology will be in place.

 

So those are the two things that I would do: Get people ready for the journey ahead and put one of these foundational steps in place to get ready.

 

 

TN: Those are really enabling technologies, right? They’re not substitutional. They still need people, they still need engineering skills. It’s really just enabling them to do more, right?

 

 

GC: Correct, yeah. And covering off that gap incapacity is the key thing. Somewhere down the road, there will be the adoption of artificial intelligence and machine learning tools to improve the performance of the business. Those are coming and they’re coming very quickly. We’re not there yet. The job is where the industry needs to move forward, and as I see those are the two steps.

 

 

TN: Do you see this as kind of a generational thing? Is this five-ten years away? Or is it an iterative thing where you see it changing bit by bit for each year? How do you see this on the technology side for them?

 

 

GC: Well, in my book, I actually sketched out a way to think about this problem. And I call it the fuse in the bang. The fuses, if you think about Bugs Bunny cartoons. Bugs Bunny and it would be a comically large keg of gunpowder. It’ll be jammed into the back of your Yosemite Sam. As they go racing off, they leave a trail of gunpowder and Bugs would just drop a match in it. It always ended in a comically large but not very terminal explosion. So imagine that the length of fuse, that trail of gunpowder is how much time we’ve got and the size of the keg of gunpowder is how big the impact is going to be. In my book, I could actually go through some ways to think about this.

 

But you have to think about it in these terms, oil and gas is principally a brownfield operations business. In other words, most of the assets predate the Internet Age and they’re continuing to run and they run 24/7, they’re extremely hard to change, and so as a result, the idea that we can quickly jam innovation into these plants is just nonsense. It’s not going to work. So it’s going to take quite a long time.

 

The generation is on two fronts. One is the technology is legacy and therefore it has generational barriers to adoption of change. We also have a workforce, which is tightly coupled to that infrastructure and it also has struggles to cope with change. So we have to come across these two generational shifts that have to happen and they basically have to happen at the same time.

 

 

TN: Very interesting. Geoffrey, I wish we could go on for another hour. There’s so many directions we can take from here. So, thanks much for your time. It’s been really great talking to you and I hope we can revisit this maybe in a couple of months to see where the industry is, how far we’ve come along, just with the downturn of first and second quarter, look later in the year just to see where things are and if we’re in a bit of a better place.

 

 

GC: It’d be great fun because this is, you know, as I’d like to tell people, this is not the time to actually leave or ignore the industry. It’s when it goes through these great troughs like this, this is where exciting things happen, so pay attention.