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The Week Ahead – 11 Jul 2022: Energy Backwardation

We had a pretty volatile week last week, with crude selling off pretty sharply early in the week. In this episode, we looked at energy backwardation, and Tracy educated us on what’s happening in those markets.

We also had some comments from Putin about a multipolar world. Albert talked through that.

And then on Friday, unfortunately, we saw the assassination of Japan’s former Prime Minister Abe. We talked about the Japan post-Abe and what that means for the region.

Key themes:

  1. Energy backwardation
  2. Putin’s Multi-Polar world
  3. Japan post-Abe
  4. What’s ahead for next week?

This is the 25th episode of The Week Ahead, where experts talk about the week that just happened and what will most likely happen in the coming week.

Follow The Week Ahead experts on Twitter:

Tony: https://twitter.com/TonyNashNerd
Tracy: https://twitter.com/chigrl
Albert: https://twitter.com/amlivemon/

Time Stamps

0:00 Start
0:54 Key Themes for the week
1:28 Catalyst of the energy sell-off on Tuesday
5:44 Will we see more action in energy prices?
6:57 Is it cost-ineffective to make hydrogen with natgas prices?
8:11 Diesel
9:20 Vladimir Putin’s multipolar world.
13:44 Japan post-Abe
20:29 What’s for the week ahead?

Listen to the podcast version on Spotify here:

Transcript

TN: Hi. Welcome to the Week Ahead. I’m Tony Nash. Thanks for joining us. I’m with Tracy and Albert today. Sam is away, but we are talking about a pretty volatile week this week. Before we get started, actually, please like and subscribe. Please ask any questions below, make any comments. We want to make sure this is interesting for you, so just let us know any additional info you want or comments. We’re happy to address those.

We had a pretty volatile week this week with crude selling off pretty sharply early in the week. So we’re going to look at energy backwardation, and Tracy is going to educate us all on what’s happening in those markets. We also had some comments out of Putin about a multipolar world. We’re going to have Albert talk through that. And then on Friday, unfortunately, we saw the assassination of Japan’s former Prime Minister Abe. So we’re going to talk about the Japan post Abe and what that means for Japan and the region.

So first let’s get into energy. Tracy, obviously, we had a big sell off in energy early in the week, and then we saw it come back later. What was really the catalyst for that energy sell off on Tuesday?

TS: What happened is that we started on July 5, right? We opened with low liquidity in the market in general. Then we saw a sell off in the general markets and commodities and risky assets that kind of exacerbated that trade. And then on the 6th, we saw a liquidation of a couple of very large positions in that market. And so fundamentally, basically, there is no reason for this sell off other than technicalities.

In fact, if we’re looking at this market, this spreads, the calendar spreads, which means month to month, were exploding higher during this entire move. That implies that the physical market at least, is very tight right now because you’re seeing backwardation increase significantly when we’re seeing a $10 move in ZZ, which is crazy.

TN: Can you tell us what that means? A $10 move in ZZ. What does that mean for the rest of us?

TS: If you’re talking about calendar schedule, we’re talking about monthly. So we can talk about the current front month is August. So we look at August, September, September to October, October to November, et cetera, et cetera. And once these spreads start exploding higher, that means that we’re seeing people want to dump oil in the front month market because that’s more lucrative than keeping it in storage.

So if I’m an investor and I’m looking and I want to invest in a backwardated market, I’m looking at a convex market that goes from right to left, and I’m going to invest in, say, a back month, and I want my investment to move higher…

TN: I’m investing further in the future.

TS: Right. That’s what it backwards. If you’re in a contangable market, we’re looking at the opposite situation, where you’re looking at a convex structure going from right to left, whereas if I invest in December, by the time my investment reaches Frontline X free, I’m losing money. I’m losing value in my investment.

TN: Right.

TS: And so that’s how we kind of have to look at that situation.

TN: Yes. You had a great tweet this week explaining that with visuals.

TS: I did. It’s on Twitter, if anyone wants to see it.

TN: Exactly. We saw this in crude. We also saw it in a natural gas. Right?

TS: Yes. We’re kind of seeing a major pullback in many of the commodities markets. Right. We’re seeing a little bit of a bounce this week because we’re looking at China. China has recently announced we have one last announcement with $200 billion bond sale rate. So we’re looking at a lot of stimulus out of China that’s giving commodities the boost. Right now, we have to see I think the markets are still going to wait on, particularly the industrial and base medical markets are going to wait until we actually see some action in China to really see investment back into these markets after this huge goal.

TN: So nobody believes the China stimulus story right now. It’s kind of a show me the money period. Right. But once they do start to show the money, do you think we’ll see much more action in energy prices?

TS: I think you’ll see more action in metal prices than you will equity prices.

TN: Copper’s way off compared to, say, the last 18 months. But it’s not way off, given historical copper prices. If we go back before, say, Q1 of 2020, it’s kind of where it had been previously in the ballpark, at least. Right. So we haven’t necessarily reverted back to pre-COVID, necessarily. We’re just in the start-stop manufacturing world, and that’s what’s affecting base metals like copper. Is that fair to say?

TS: Oh, absolutely. If you look at, like, a monthly chart rather than looking at a five-minute chart, and the market has kind of just been consolidating, really, for the last two years, until we see a really big break above, say, $5, a really big break below $3, we’re still kind of in that consolidation zone.

TN: 3.50 to 4.50 kind of range. Interesting. Okay. Sorry, Albert.

AM: Yeah. I got a question for Tracy. Nat gas, as we’re talking, since we discussed it a little bit, that’s used to make hydrogen, if I’m not mistaken, and since the nat gas price seems to be elevated, isn’t that going to be a little bit too cost-ineffective to make hydrogen, which causes a diesel problem, if I’m not mistaken? I’m not sure about that. That’s what I’m asking.

TS: No, absolutely. I think that would be a problem. Looking forward. I think there’s a lot of problems if we’re looking at the hydrogen market. There’s still a lot of problems when we’re talking about taking this idea to actual fruition. Right. Because if you look at the hydrogen market, there’s like a rainbow of green hydrogen, blue hydrogen, this hydrogen, this hydrogen. But we really haven’t gotten to the point that can overtake, not gas the allure of the situation is that you can take hydrogen, mix it with nat gas, you can send it down the same pipeline, and that saves a lot of money.

AM: Yeah.

TS: The situation is this is not a great idea in theory, but we’re just not there yet.

TN: Okay, got you. Albert’s, question about diesel. Diesel is not any less tight than it was a week or two ago. Right? In fact, that’s just as tight or tighter than it was, say, a couple of weeks ago or a month ago.

TS: Yeah, I think the diesel market is still very tight.

TN: Right.

AM: Maintenance season starts, isn’t it? From September to November?

TS: Yes, we will start maintenance seasons.

TN: Okay.

TS: I would actually look for some of these refineries to maybe put off maintenance season. So that’s what I would watch to the maintenance season happen. And it’s happened before. If we have it such a tight market, we could see them putting off maintenance seasons. It’s not unheard of.

TN: Okay, so hurricane season and maintenance season are upon us, but we may see at least maintenance season for all of us.

TS: Oh, not I just moved to Florida.

TN: Good luck with that. I’m in Texas. We don’t get as many of you, but it’ll be a fun season for you.

Okay, let’s move on, guys, to some comments out of Putin this week. Vladimir Putin had some comments about us, the multipolar world becoming more and more of reality. We heard this ten years ago. We heard this 20 years ago, and it came up again this week. So, Albert, can you kind of let us know what’s going on there?

AM: Tony, I’ve used this multipolar example for the US. Dollar dominance I got for years now. And the fact of the matter is, we are not in a multipolar world. We are not even going into multipolar world.

People are confusing a little bit of weakness in the US. Leadership and errors and decision making, foreign policy for multipolars, it’s just a multipolarity, and it’s just not the case for the world to be in a multipolar scenario, you would need multiple countries with equal militaries and economies. We are nowhere near that.

The Russian economy is 2.5 trillion. The American economy is pushing 30 trillion. This is just a joke by Vladimir Putin. Simply undermine the US dominance both in the world stage and the dollar.

TN: Aside from some dumpster pundits who write for The Atlantic or whatever, who believes that nonsense?

AM: A lot of Europhiles that want to see the United States take a step down, they can do it. A lot of crypto guys, a lot of gold guys. These guys have to make that argument, because without multipolarity, you cannot have a neutral reserve asset to settle trade. And that’s just the fact of the matter.

The problem becomes, if you have a multipolar world, you’re on the verge of another world war, because there always has to be one alpha that takes hold of the system. You just can’t have equal people.

TN: And the cost of the transaction? Cost? The cost of trade, everything goes up. If you have multiple rights go up, everything goes up.

AM: It’s completely unstable.

TS: Inflation from other countries to other countries.

AM: Yeah.

TN: The world is built on China exporting deflation. Has been for 15, 20 years. And it will continue. If they could just keep their ports open, it will continue. And it makes people happy. Right.

AM: No, you’re right. That’s just the way our system works right now, with the dollar underpinning all of it. It’s the lifeblood that makes trade work. And people are not going to like it. But I promise you, no one alive today is going to see anything other.

TN: So let me just take a step back. Who does he think the polls are? Russia, China and the US? Or Germany or something?

AM: He’s trying to make an assumption to say that Russia and China are the new contenders to the United States. The problem with that is they don’t have military power projection globally like the United States does. They can’t even invade Ukraine. China can’t even invade Taiwan. Otherwise they would have taken it if they’ve it could have. This is the world we live.

TN: Yeah. Russia can stir up problems in Libya or the Middle East or whatever.

AM: There’s no question that they can stir up problems and they can fill in gap vacuums that we leave right, unintentionally, unintentionally. But they cannot hold that territory. They cannot force changes in governments like the United States did.

TN: And every time I hear somebody talk about the Belt and Road as a sign of China’s dominance, it reminds me of Napoleon’s march to Russia. Right? I mean, they’re spreading themselves so thin. They can’t keep that up.

AM: They can’t. That’s perfect example to do that, to make that thing actually successful, you need to back that up to secure your trade line, trade with the military. Right. China has like, what, two military bases outside of China? Like one in Djibouti and something else. I mean, they can’t send ships over to their armor.

TN: Myanmar.

AM: Yeah. This is beyond a joke to me. I don’t take anybody seriously that even brings this part up, right. Vladimir Putin included.

TN: That’s good. So anybody watching this, if you have an alternative view, let us know in the comments. Honestly, we’d love to hear it. We just want to hear some credible.

TS: Put your notes in the comments.

TN: Yes, absolutely. Okay. Now, finally today I woke up in the US to the really tragic news of Japan’s foreign Prime Minister Abe, being assassinated.

I saw Abe in his first stint as PM in the mid 2000s. And then when he came back in, in 2013, and with the Abenomics plan, which was really difficult to pull off, ultimately successfully. The guy was smart. He was all about Japan. He’s all about Japan recovering, all about Japan being competitive. I put a picture up of Abe shaking hands with Prime Minister Modi of India. Japan and India were very tight. A lot of Japanese investment going to India, a lot of partnership across those two countries and in Africa, both to defend against China in Asia and other parts of the world. So Prime Minister Abe will be missed.

I think what Abe did partly was bring back Japan’s ability to defend itself by passing a constitutional change that allowed the Japanese military to defend itself where previously it wasn’t even allowed to do that. So there’s a lot of dignity that Japan kind of got back, and we can rub Japan’s nose in World War II for eternity, but it’s not going to be constructive. What happened, happened. They’ve paid their dues, and that’s kind of what Abe said, look, we paid our dues, we’re going to move on now and join the 21st century. And that’s what Japan did.

So I’m just curious to get your thoughts, guys, on Japan post Abe. What do you see as of course they moved on to another prime minister. Japan has already moved on from the Abe government. He wasn’t a sitting prime minister. But what do you see kind of the challenges of Japan’s role in Asia particularly, but also in the world post Abe?

AM: I think the most pressing issue for Japan would be contending with China, both militarily and economically. Abe was, like you said, brilliant statesman and patriot for the Japanese people. So he’s going to be sorely missed. And it’s not just he’s going to be missed, but his cabinet and the people that his network is going to be missed because they’re losing a big part of what he brought to the table in terms of strategy and ideology. It was a big shift.

I think that the Japanese are probably going to struggle for strategy in the next five to ten years. And it’s a sad thing, but I’m sure the Japanese, they’re resilient people and they’ll move on and they’ll recover.

TN: Tracy?

TS: No, I absolutely agree with what Albert said. I think the thing is that people are painting him, the media right now, in particular the Western media, painting them with some villain, which is very interesting to me. And I think that people should really just look at his legacy and respect what he’s done instead of jumping on the bandwagon.

TN: So they’re portraying him as some ultra nationalist, but he’s as ultra nationalist as Modi as in India, or Jokowi is in Indonesia, or Lee is in Singapore, you name it. Tsai Ing-wen in Taiwan. It’s an Asian direction now. Right. And has been for the last ten to 15 years.

AM: Yeah. The media also, Tony, is desperate to not allow any center right or even right nationalist figures be murderers or looked up upon. They just can’t stomach it. They just can’t help themselves to demonize a person that is absolutely unjustifiably demonized by being called an ultra-nationalist and even worse, by the NPR.

NPR had two other headlines that they had to delete because it was just so atrocious. This is a.. And Modi, Abe, I don’t want to put Victor Orban into that, but all these right leaning leaders just get attacked and the media can’t help it.

TN: Right, yeah. I think from an economic plan, if we look at what Abe did with Abenomics, of course, the Japanese Central Bank is kind of “independent,” right. But they really took the JPY from kind of 76 to the dollar to, say, 120 to the dollar, and it really allowed Japanese manufacturing to be competitive again. Right.

And it took somebody with that clarity of economic vision, as well as the clarity of, say, the military vision and political vision, to be able to pull off what they did. And in terms of, say, energy sustainability under Abe, they also created much deeper relationships in the Middle East with places like Qatar, UAE.

TS: And they also looked forward to nuclear, where you looked at the west was looking to shut things down, Abe was looking to invest in nuclear projects. You’re looking for energy security, energy going forward. There are a lot of things that he did to advance that sector in Japan, which is admirable.

TN: Right. Albert if we take a US perspective on this? The US has worked hard to kind of hold a line against China. Do you think with the mediocre leadership we have in the US right now, do you think it’s possible that some of that US say coalition falls apart a little bit? Or do you think we just kind of take a breather and then it resumes based on the institutional stamina of parts of the Japanese government?

AM: That’s a great question, Tony. That’s actually a really good question. And I think where we have to look for we have to separate the Biden foreign policy cabinet with the Pentagon. Because the Pentagon is actually leading this charge for the Pacific with Japan and Australia in charge. I really don’t think that the Japanese are going to take a step back or the US is going to take a step back. I think the system is pretty much, the train has already left the station and it’s rolling.

There might be an argument from the opposition in Japan, but I don’t think. That it’s going to take hold to derail this new initiative by the US and the Pacific.

TN: Great, that’s good to hear. Okay, guys. Hey, on that somber note, we’ll end it, but let’s look at the week ahead. Guys, what are you looking for in the week ahead? We’ve had this real turnaround this week. What do you see going into next week? Do you see things calming a bit?

We saw it coming into Friday. Things really turn up in US markets and in commodity markets. Do we see things stabilizing a bit going into the Fed meeting after we’ve had some Fed comments late this week?

AM: I want to see the comments of where they might signal a 50 basis point rate hike versus a 75. I absolutely believe 75 points is coming just from the jobs data that they posted. It was obviously massaged a little bit.

TN: Just a little bit.

AM: Of course it is. Yeah, but this was a good one. And then the revision too, and it just seems to me that they want another 75 basis point rate hike.

TN: To really kill it?

AM: They got to tackle inflation. I mean, they’re looking at 8.8 on the next CPI, which is just.. And you’re staring on the barrel at 9% and 9.2 and 9.3 in the coming months, which is absolutely a political nuclear bomb that goes off.

TN: Okay, Tracy, what are you looking for in the next week especially in commodities?

TS: Yeah, I mean, I agree we probably will see 75 after non farm payroll this week, which I was looking for a clue kind of are we going to get 50, are we going to get 75? It looks like 75 for sure.

So looking in the coming weeks, I’m really looking to China right now and to see what comes to fruition with these sort of stimulus plans. What does that do to the base in industrial medals markets? And I think those are the two things that you should be focusing on right now, particularly if you’re invested in commodities markets.

TN: Very good. Okay. Yeah. I’m kind of hoping they give in to 50, but I’m not hopeful. I do think they’ll on the kind of conservative hawkish side and go 75. But if they can pick up the bat phone and talk to China, and the China guys will unload a dump truck of cash over the next week or so, then I think they’ll be a little bit lighter and do 50 basis points. But I think a lot of it depends on China ECB. They can’t get their act together, so there’s nothing ECB can do to really help.

And Europe is in so much trouble that it doesn’t really matter what they do. They have huge problems anyway. So. I think you’re right. And tell me what you think about this. But I don’t necessarily think we see massive chop. I think we see just a lot of fairly sideways moved for the next week or so.

AM: I would be wary if we jumped up to 4000 or even, like, 3970. I think a rug pull would be in an order right after that. That’s what they do. They bowl everybody up and then pull the rug out.

TN: Tracy?

TS: Yeah. After this big move down in the oil market, in particular, because we did have sort of a flow event coupled with a couple of large funds kind of workforce to liquidate. So I could see that we still could go a little bit higher next week. Sideways to higher next week.

TN: Very good. Okay, guys, be interesting to see. Thanks for joining us. Thanks very much. Have a great weekend. And have a great week ahead.

TN: Very good. Thank you, guys.

AM: I struggle with the headache through that whole thing.

Categories
Week Ahead

The Week Ahead – 07 Feb 2022

The Week Ahead - 07 Feb 2022

In this episode, we talked about some really interesting tech earnings like of Facebook and Amazon, crude and natgas prices, and the bond market. How does the NFP data affect the bond market? Also discussed central bank’s reaction to inflation and why you should be keeping your eyes on the CPI?

This is the fifth episode of The Week Ahead in collaboration of Complete Intelligence with Intelligence Quarterly, where experts talk about the week that just happened and what will most likely happen in the coming week.

For those who prefer to listen to this episode, here’s the podcast version for you.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3DmO9AkU7cHG3MP1wEjuej?si=b9cd41abf47f422d

Follow The Week Ahead experts on Twitter:

Tony: https://twitter.com/TonyNashNerd
Tracy: https://twitter.com/chigrl
Nick: https://twitter.com/nglinsman/
Albert: https://twitter.com/amlivemon

Show Notes

TN: Hi, everyone, and welcome to The Week Ahead. I’m Tony Nash. And I’m joined by Tracy Shuchart, Nick Glinsman, and Albert Marko. Before we get started, I’d like to ask you to subscribe to our YouTube channel. It helps us a lot get visibility, and it really helps you get reminded when a new episode is out so you don’t miss anything.

We had a lot this week. We had tech earnings, some really interesting tech earnings and market activity as a result. We had crude really ripping this week. And we had bonds raging at the end of the week. So really a lot happening across sectors, NASA classes.

So let’s start with the bond market, Nick. We seem to have gotten pretty much what you mentioned on last week’s show. So can you go into kind of what’s happened and what’s happening in the bond market right now?

NG: Yeah, we’ve basically been ambushed by inflation. That’s what’s happened. You saw yesterday out of the ECB, which was a hawkish twist, possibly one of the worst press conference performances I’ve ever seen in my life. But the facts of the matter are you’ve got five, six, 7% inflation in various countries of the EU. In Lithuania, you’ve got 12%. Okay. So they are failing at their predominant original mandate, which was inflation per the Bundes back from what I’ve been told, there were several members of the MPC.

TN: Sorry. When you say she, you mean Christine Lagarde?

NG: Christine Lagarde. Several members of the NPC wanted to get moved yesterday. Not going to happen but it’s reasonable to think perhaps two hikes this year, but that will still take us to -20 basis points. It will still be negative. Okay. And then that upset the European bond markets.

You have the Bank of England go first with 25 basis points, four dissenters wanting half a point. That started to rock the bond markets a little bit. Then the press conference out of the ECB, and you basically had, goodness how many Sigma move it was in two-year bubbles, two-year German government bonds. But they basically went up over 20 basis points in a couple of hours, terminating early this morning, and they’ve stayed elevated.

And then you had this non farm payroll data. Everybody got it wrong. And the thing is, if you think this month’s figures are nonsense, well, look at the revision.

TN: Sorry, when you mentioned the NFP data, what’s important about the NFP data? Because I think some people looked at the headline employment numbers, some people looked at the wage rate. So can you tell us what’s important there?

NG: Two things. One is nobody was expecting a non farm payroll at like this. Some people will say, well, it’s always going to be revised. Well, okay, then look at the near $400,000 upward revision for December. It’s. All their data. The way it’s coming out. The BLS isn’t necessarily the best, but everything that they look at is strong labor market.

The thing that really upset the bond market was the average hourly earnings. 5.7%. To Albert’s point last week. Wage inflation is here to stay. So having been inundated with calls this morning, that really affects what the Fed… The Fed actually are fighting for their credibility.

TN: When you say wage inflation is here to stay, but it’s really, is the Fed trying to break the back of wage inflation?

NG: Well, that’s something they could impact. Right. By increasing the demand side of the market. We’ll have another idea on inflation next week. The CPI. And the lowest forecast is 7%. The highest is 7.6%. They’re not getting the favorable comparisons because oil has continued to move up. Energies continue to move up. Right.

So assuming we’ve got a seven big handle and heaven help us if we haven’t hit the 8 handle at all, this Fed has no choice. Because as you can see with the bond market, the bond market is going to do the Fed’s job if they don’t do, it.

So every time we get to what you had over the last couple of days with a bit of pullback before the ECB had a bit of pullback by some of the Fed members, the FMC members, and the yoke of, steepened.

AM: I got a question for you, Nick. Can you buy bonds if oil goes vertical? Because I think we both think that oil is going 120 north.

NG: Yeah. Well, no. I think that’s another reason why you can’t be long bonds at the moment and the bond market will adjust to it.

Everybody said the bond vigilantes are dead. When you look at the percentage moves and the price of the bonds, they’re not these are big moves going on.

TS: Nick, can you address a little bit about what will happen to the credit markets as far as the bond movement?

NG: High yield seem to do okay today, which investment grade, fine. Historically, in rising rates, you should see investment grade is somewhat better. High yield, no. High yield. I mean, if these rates are going to start moving up and some of the stuff I heard today tells me “one and done” is not going to happen. It’s going to be more and they’re not going to have a choice.

And the central banks have been basically what you had in the last seven or eight days is the central banks admitting they made a policy error or two last year. And now they’re fearful of making further policy errors. So they’ve got to be seen to do.

And again, to Albert’s point last week, clearly the Biden administration is, had their backs on the inflation front. And I suspect from what I was being told, we’re going to be quite surprised at potentially how aggressive this Fed could be. Not 50 basis points in March. That will be too quick. Too much, too quick. But May, June could well be in play because these numbers aren’t coming down. They’re just not coming down.

TN: Okay. So regardless Q2 is when things start to happen on the interest rate front, on the rates front, right?

NG: Yeah. In terms of QT, I was told the second half, beginning of the second half. Second half.

TN: So does that mean July or November?

NG: Probably means July. Okay.

AM: I honestly think it’s a possibility we do that beforehand just because fiscal cliff is coming in March.

TN: How do they go from QE to QT? Just like that? They shouldn’t be doing QE right now anyway. That’s true. It’s still doing QE. So they missed a beat there.

AM: How do you taper if you’re doing QE still? Why doesn’t anybody ask that question or answer?

TN: I ask it every week.

AM: Tony, I was on this thing with Andreas and “we’re going to taper.” I’m like, “okay, sure.” On paper. But the reality is you’re not because the QE is continuous.

TN: I don’t know. It seems to me from what Nick is saying, it may not be continuous. It seems like that has to stop because the policy position is going to stop in March. Right?

NG: Exactly. Which is why I think 25 basis points, not 50. However, I think right now, until they’ve caught up somewhat forward guidance is not going to be with clarity.

They want to get back to normal so they can be forward guiding according to what we were used to in the deflationary times. Pre-Covid. Okay.

TN: Okay. So when you say pre-Covid, you mean pre-Covid in terms of interest rate and balance sheet?

NG: Yeah. I think it’s exactly what I’ve been told this morning. They want to get back to the interest rate level that was prevalent then. They want their balance sheet back at that level.

TN: Okay.

NG: And I think that what’s happened is not only have they been shocked by inflation, they shouldn’t be shocked by the false-ty of their forecast, but I think they were shocked by the fact that we’ve got a lot of bubbles going on.

Equity market value, housing market, NFT, crude oil. Crude oil’s not a bubble. Bonds have been a bubble. So I think we’ve got some surprise. And of course, that will then feed it.

Remember I said originally, there’s either a riot in the bond market or riot in equity market.

TN: That’s right.

NG: One or the other. It started with bonds, and then we got a bit of an equity riot yesterday, which was more earnings related. But the thing about it is if you look at interest rates as gravity, zero interest rates with basically zero gravity. So you’re on the moon. Equity starts have been up here. If they’re raising rates, they’re increasing the level of gravity. News and law means that something starts to fall.

I was also told if it’s not a cascade, if it’s orderly, sort of down 20% from here, they’re okay with it.

TN: Okay. That puts us at what, 36?

NG: 35, 36,000, which is still above where we were before Covid. Right?

TN: Right.

NG: Fed will be happy with it. This put, is not, there’s no clarity on the put anymore.

TN: Okay. Is it safe to say that your view by the end of the year is sometime between now and the end of the year will hit 35, $3600?

NG: Look, the Fed. These rate markets will carry on. Any mistake by the Fed, any hesitation, it’s going to be punished by rates. And you’ve seen what’s happening, and it happens. It crosses over. You saw what happened in the European bond market as well this Thursday. Bank of England. You saw Gilts market also adjust, and that flowed through to the US market and it continued today.

TN: So do you think the ten-year crosses 2% next month?

NG: Oh, yeah. My target on the ten-year for this year is 260.

TN: Okay, great. So let’s take that and a central bank’s reaction, inflation. Tracy, we’re seeing crude prices just kind of a rocket ship. So can you talk us through that and let us know how does that contribute to next week’s CPI? And Nick mentioned CPI, but what do you expect for that as well?

TS: Well, I mean, I expect CPI to be high. However, the Fed doesn’t really include energy and housing in there and food in their metrics. So that doesn’t necessarily play into that.

That said, I think what we saw today was a lot of shorts being squeezed out of the market. That said, still expecting higher crude prices later this year into Q3.

The reason being because the global oil inventories just drew another 8 million. We have OPEC that just announced another 400K increase for next month this week. Right. And they haven’t even been able to keep up with their production increases. I mean, their compliance is over 132% right now. They just don’t have the spare capacity to move forward. US products consumed last week hit 21.6 million barrels. That’s over 2019 levels.

So globally, we’re seeing higher demand with lower supplies. So this market is likely to continue higher just because of actual supply and demand issues, which I’ve been talking about week over week.

What’s also interesting today is that nobody’s really talking about is that Saudi Aramco just announced that they’re mulling another 50 billion equity stake sale. Right. And so it would be a good thing to keep kind of oil prices higher and inventory is kind of lower. Right?

TN: Sure.

TS: There’s a lot going on in the market right now.

TN: Okay. And as we see this cold front come through different parts of the US, of course, it’s winter. But do you expect, say, Nat gas to continue to rally or say, for the next couple of weeks or next couple of months, or do you expect that we’re kind of in the zone where we’re going to be through the winter?

TS: I mean, I think we’re kind of in the zone. US nat gas prices are not as subject to the volatility or the constraints that say European nat gas prices are concerned. I mean, we have an overabundance of Nat gas, we tend to flare it.

We’re going to be this year the world’s largest exporter. Right. But that’s not necessarily going to bring I mean, you have to look at our gas prices trading at four or $5 compared to nat gas prices in Europe trading at $40. So I think we’re at a sideways market right now just because of the oversupply that we have.

What we are saying is depending on what area you live in, then natural gas prices tend to vary. So we’re looking at the North East, for example, where we have this cold front. Nat gas prices are at $11. Right. But Henry Hub, which is what everybody’s trading is still at 4 to 5. We’re going to see not gas prices rise in Texas right now because we have a cold front coming through. But again, that’s a regional market.

TN: I was just complaining about gasoline prices being $3 here in Texas earlier today, so I just can’t deal with it. Where is it where you guys are?

AM: $4.25 in Tampa.

TN: $4.25?! Holy cow. What about you, Tracy?

TS: $3.99 in the Northeast.

TN: We’re right at $3, and I can barely stand it.

Okay, let’s move along with the geopolitical stuff. So, of course, Ukraine is on everyone’s mind. And we’ll put a link to this in the show description, the video from the State Department spokesman and the AP diplomacy reporter. Albert, can you talk us through a little bit of that kind of what’s happening there and what is that doing to the situation to find a diplomatic solution?

AM: Well, simplistically, I mean, you have the Biden administration trying to amp up the rhetoric and make it more dramatic, basically to distract from what’s going on domestically in the United States from inflation and social issues, and SCOTUS picks down the list of the problems that are facing the Biden administration. That exchange was unbelievable.

You had an AP reporter just taking him to task and saying “where’s the declassified information? And his response was, “I’m telling you verbally right now, and that’s the declassified information.” That’s unbelievable. You’re not going to get away with that.

This is just more of a symptom of the ineptitude of Anthony Blinken as Secretary of State. He shouldn’t even be called “Secretary of State” anymore. It should be “Secretary of statements,” because that’s all he does. He doesn’t do anything else. And when it’s concerning with Ukraine and his method for, “diplomacy”, he’s a non factor. The United States is a non factor, right now.

They’re behind the eight ball where they keep talking up this rhetoric and putting their allies in Europe behind the black ball here. What do we do here? We need support from the United States to show strength, but realistically, we can’t stop them going into Ukraine.

TN: Okay. Yeah. So let’s just go onto a viewer question here from @SachinKunger. He says, what will happen if there is an actual escalation between Russia and Ukraine? What’s the likelihood of actual escalation and what do you think would happen? Both you and Tracy? Part of it is commodity prices. Is there an impact on commodity supply chains, meaning wheat and gas and other stuff to Europe or other places, or is that not necessarily a huge issue?

AM: Well, I believe we’re about 75% that they’re going to have some sort of incursion into Ukraine. I mean, you don’t mobilize that many people and create supply chain logistics to not do anything. That question really depends on the level of incursion. Right. Because if it’s just ten, 20,000.

TN: It goes back to Biden’s minor incursion.

AM: That’s the Pentagon’s working model. And that’s my working model. 10, 20 thousand, you go in the same place as you were before, you loot the countryside, cause a little disturbance. The west looks weak. You leave after a month or so. Right. That’s the likelihood situation.

Of course, the markets are going to freak out in day one.

TS: That’s exactly what I was going to say. I mean, obviously you’re going to see a reaction in the commodities markets just because we’ve had four years of really not much geopolitical risk factored into a lot of these markets, the agricultural markets, the energy market. Right. Pretty much after Libya had a ceasefire in 2020, all that risk premium kind of came out of at least the energy markets and the agricultural markets, we haven’t really seen a lot of geopolitical risks.

So of course, the markets will freak out. I totally agree with Albert on this point. Whether that’s going to last or not, that’s a totally different story.

TN: Yeah. I also think that we’ve had so much money supply that that cushions geopolitical risk on some level. And interest rates have been so low that that cushions geopolitical risk as well. So as we’re in this interest rate cycle and this balance sheet cycle, geopolitical risk counts for more. It’s more costly for companies, it’s more costly for countries and investors.

NG: I would add one other thing. These markets are not trading liquidly. So these moves on geopolitical risk could be exaggerated. Right?

TS: Exactly. My point is that geopolitical risk will be exaggerated at this point.

NG: You can see there’s no liquidity, right?

AM: Yeah. To be fair, any kind of event right now just makes the markets look like it’s a crypto exchange. 30% up, 30% down 300 points on the ES. That’s insane.

TN: On that, Albert, let’s move to some tech earnings and let’s talk about Facebook and Amazon. So if we want to talk about big moves, everyone kind of knows this, but can you talk us through a little bit of that? But I’m more interested in why it’s happening. Why is everyone negative on Meta and why are they positive on Amazon?

AM: Well, from my perspective, the Fed and their cohorts use maybe a dozen companies to pump the markets. Right. They’re mainly tech. Right. They’ve expanded out into a few other things, but it’s mainly tech, Facebook being one of them, Amazon being another. AMD and Google and all these guys. Right. All these big tech names.

Now when you see Facebook miss and a couple of other miss, and the markets start to get weak, there’s a point to where… This goes back to what Nick says about different levels in the markets and whatnot. He always stresses that with me. There’s a point to where if they break this level, we’re going down to 4100 or 4000 or God forbid, 3900. Right. So that lined up right when Amazon’s earnings were coming up. And I’m looking at the market and I’m looking at these levels and I’m like, there is absolutely no way they’re going to allow Amazon to miss. Whether they let them look the books or say something in guidance or whatnot. And lo and behold, what happened? Amazon beat. Did they really beat? Probably not. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then Pinterest that nobody cares about beats and then Snapchat. I don’t even know what the hell why they’re a company. They beat unbelievably. I think they were up like 50, 60% and after hours. Right.

So now they have their juice to pump the markets back up to 45, 30 or even maybe 4600 next week before the fiscal cliff becomes a problem.

TN: Okay.

TS: You also have to look at the bond market. Right? I mean, the more the ten-year tanks, the more that’s going to drag on tech.

TN: Right. So what does that tell us about the next couple of weeks, specifically next week? But the next couple of weeks? As we’ve seen, say Meta come down, Facebook come down. But we’ve seen these other things really rally. Where is tech as a sector?

AM: It’s a pump sector. That’s all it is right now. There’s nothing really behind it. It’s built on zero rates. Well, we know we’re going to get rate heights. So what are you betting on at the moment?

TN: Right. And that’s the basis of my question. If tech is a deflation play and we’re in inflationary environment and we’re going to have rate rises, what does that mean for tech in the near term? So are we at the kind of tail end of tech? That’s my real question.

NG: We’re at the tail end whilst we have to see these interest rate rises come through. And actually, you don’t necessarily have to see the central banks officially raise because if they don’t, the bond markets are… And then there’ll be a catch up. This is the problem. If they Underperform in their credibility catch up because they’ve already implicitly admitted their errors of policy, bond market will adjust and they have to catch up again.

Now, if they do something surprising on the rate side. So yesterday was an ECB shock, right? Today, there was nothing to do with the Fed. It was the data. Well, we’ve got that CPI date next week. Right. That’s going to be very interesting because I agree with Tracy. Core is at a certain level which is still too high. But it’s the full Monty, the full CPI that labor uses when they’re discussing their wage claims. Practically, that’s the behavior of economy.

TN: CPI is the single biggest event next week. Is that fair to say?

TS, AM, NG: Yes.

TN: Okay, so let’s look at that. What if it is, say seven, which is kind of the expectation, I guess the lower bound of expectation kind of. Right? So let’s say it’s seven or let’s say it’s even five. What does that mean for us? Does that mean continued, easy Fed? Or does that mean you have the same assumptions and that’s just kind of a milestone or something that we’re passing along the way to higher rates anyway?

NG: We’re on the way to higher rates anyway.

TN: Okay.

TS: I mean, if it’s five, the market, temporarily if it’s five, the market temporarily will probably rally because that lessens the effect that Fed is going to raise. Right. That percentage will probably go down. But that’s a temporary. If we’re just talking about market reaction on the data release, I don’t really see that happening. I don’t see 5% coming in. I don’t see that a possibility.

TN: But then let’s look at the other side. What if it’s eight and a half? What happens then?

NG: Well, then in the old days, it would have been an inter meeting rate hike.

TN: Okay. Right.

NG: And the bond market will just, it’ll be another riot. Even if the core is steady. Big figure eight on the full CPI? that would shock a few people. Like people were shocked today with the non- farm payroll data.

Literally, if you could watch Bloomberg TV, it was like. They couldn’t believe what was going on.

TN: So we’re in that place in the market where the porridge has to be just right. Is that fair to say?

TS: I think we’re in for volatility. Right? I mean, we’ve been experiencing volatility for the last month or so. I think this will continue until March, until we have some resolution of whether the Fed is going to raise rates or not.

In between, it’s going to be volatile because everybody’s looking at intermittent data saying, does this mean the Fed is going to raise rates? Does this mean the Fed is going to look do you know what I mean? So I think we’re in that pushbull thing, and I think that volatility will continue into next week. I think that volatility will continue until actually the March meeting, until we get some resolution on whether the Fed is going to raise rates and by how much.

TN: Okay. So if I just a couple of things for you to agree or disagree with, just short yes, no. Next week volatility in equities with downside bias, you agree or disagree?

AM: Disagree.

TN: Disagree. Nick, you agree or disagree? Downside bias, you agree. Tracy, equities, agree or disagree?

TS: I think it depends on the sector. Okay. Give me one or two. I think we’ll see, my downside bias is in tech and then obviously, yes, because it’s heavy tech. Right. And so I think we see sideways markets in the Dow and the Russell.

TN: Okay, then let’s do the same exercise for commodities. I know there’s a lot of companies out there, but generally commodities. Choppy with an upside bias. Agree or disagree?

TS, AM: Agreed.

NG: That’s a dollar call.

TN: Okay. Explain that.

NG: Yesterday because of the dollar’s weakness against the Euro and the Dixie, I tend to agree with you. I think it’s going to be choppy until we see the color of the CPI number.

TN: Okay. Very good. Anything else to add for the week ahead?

NG: Just keep your eyes on the bond market. My mantra.

TN: Very good. Okay.

TS: Keep your eyes on B come.

TN: Thanks guys. Thanks very much. Have a great weekend. And have a great week ahead.

TS: Thank you.

TN: I don’t know the left side of my screen is the pineapple people.

AM: We’re going to call Nick Luke for the episode today.

NG: The professional version of Luke.

AM: Okay. Anyways, I’m done joking. Let’s get this thing on the road. Okay.

TN: Good. Alright.

Categories
Podcasts

Tech Crumbles as Spigots Close

TECH CRUMBLES AS SPIGOTS CLOSE

Tech stocks on Nasdaq and NYSE are being pummelled as momentum behind the Fed’s unwinding policy continues. Tony Nash, CEO, Complete Intelligence, discusses.

This podcast first appeared and originally published at https://www.bfm.my/podcast/morning-run/market-watch/tech-crumbles-as-spigots-close on January 20, 2022.

Show Notes

KHC: BFM 89.9 20th of January 2022, 7:06 in the morning with me Khoo Hsu Chuang with Philip See. Now let’s look at how global markets closed yesterday.

PS: Oh, it was terrible. I think that was a lot of downward pressure in the US. Down S&P500 were down 1%, Nasdaq was down one 2%. Asian markets were relatively mixed. The Nikkei was down two 8%. Hung Seng up marginally zero 6%, Shanghai Composite down zero 3%, STI up zero 1%, and back home, FBM KLCI down zero 8%.

KHC: And to discuss what’s happening in global markets, we now welcome Tony Nash, the chief executive of Complete Intelligence. Tony, Nasdaq down 8.3% year to date. It’s been a bit of a bloodbath. How concerned should equity investors be at this point in time, especially those that are heavily into tech companies?

TN: Yeah, if they’re heavily invested in tech companies, they should be very concerned when interest rates rise. It’s a signal that there should be rotation out of technology. And that’s clearly what’s going on. So if we look at Apple, for example, Apple was down over 2% today. They’ve had a really hard time recovering the kind of $180 share peak they hit in early December. So people have known for a month and a half now. Well, definitely over a month that there’s been a rotation out of tech. So we expect headwind for several months until we get a clear indication of the path that the Fed’s going to undertake and how steeply they’re going to raise rates and start to tighten their balance sheet.

PS: Do you think the markets are priced in all the hikes planned?

TN: I think markets are trying to figure out what rates they’re going to do. I mean, there’s gossip right now that they’re going to raise 50 basis points in March, which would be probably an overshoot. But that’s part of the reason you’re seeing such volatility in equities right now is people aren’t really sure. And it’s a debate. It’s an ongoing debate. So where do you put your money? Well, you look at commodities, you look at commodity companies, energy companies, more traditional say manufacturing, not durable goods. People really stocked up on durable goods over the last two years, but other types of manufacturing companies could be interesting.

KHC: And Tony, we’ll talk about oil in just a second. But where do you think the funds are flowing? I know it’s a liquid activity, but where are the funds flowing away from tech into?

TN: Well, if you look at Walmart, there’s some very reliable, say, retail names that they’re going into. If you look at some of the resource plays, like Goldfields was up almost 13% today, volley was up 4.5%. So some of these commodity plays are really intercepting those games.

KHC: That’s right. And of course, talking about commodities, oil is on a tail 13% higher for Brent at $88. West Texas is up 15% to $87. What are the key drivers behind this upper trajectory beyond obviously this market driven flows, Tony?

TN: Yeah. I mean, part of it is the rotation in the market. There are some supply constraints that have been talked about and kind of been undertaken over the past week with some activities in Iraq between Iraq and Turkey, Libya. And there are some political risks, of course, Kazakhstan, Ukraine and other places. But our view is that oil is really kind of topped out for this run. There’s potentially a little more upside, but we don’t necessarily expect oil to take a run at, say $100 right now. We expect a little bit of a pullback certainly later in the year. We expect much higher crude prices.

PS: Do you think this will have any short term impact on the travel industry then and Airlines particularly?

TN: Yes, of course, it depends on what happens with jet fuel and the magnitude of the rise with jet fuel. But Gosh Airlines are contending with enough problems already as it is. So I think for them it’s just kind of another headwind to kind of throw in their pocket.

KHC: And Tony moving into China, and of course, they are pursuing a zero covet policy. They’ve locked down key shipping ports like Nimbo. Obviously, global supply chain problems have been exacerbated by that. So what measures can countries outside China do, for example, nausea, to alleviate these issues in the short, long term?

PS: I think that’s a technology issue.

TN: Sorry, guys. No, that’s my technology issue.

I apologize.

We’ve had these Covid issues for about two years now, and I think the real problem there is policy uncertainty, and some of these policies are becoming quite dangerous. They were very understandable early in the pandemic. But as we’ve started to recognize the issues, these things really need to be tightened down. So, for example, I think the best thing or we think the best thing countries outside of China could do is accept COVID as endemic and convince China that it’s now endemic. Why is that important? Well, we’ve really been in a bunker mentality, and we can’t really stay in that for another two, five or ten years. So if we look over the past day or so, the UK and Denmark have both announced normalization over the next week, and that’s ending things like work from home, ending vaccine requirements and passports, that sort of thing. The impact will be social, it will be economic, and of course, there will be political benefits. So the only reason these politicians are moving in that direction is because they’re getting such political pressure to unwind the requirements that they’re finally doing it because China is the center of global supply chains.

There has to be political pressure for China to normalize because supply chain constraints are affecting every country. And so this is something that really needs to happen. Now if China will not normalize, if they continue to close factories and ports, then companies just need to move their supply chains closer to their consumption countries. And I say just it’s a very complicated activity, but they’ve certainly had two years to start preparing to move those things. So they should accelerate those plans.

PS: And, you know, Tony keeping on the theme of unwinding and going back to normal, I guess many would say increasing interest rates would be kind of normalizing. But I wonder what their applications will be for countries like Brazil, Egypt, Argentina, South Africa and Turkey Who are potentially vulnerable to rising US rates. What’s your assessment on that?

TN: Yeah, it’s going to be hard for them. These are countries with weak and volatile currencies. Turkish Leira, Brazil riyal in Asia, I work particularly about the Tai Baht and the Rupia and Indonesia, I think they’re both vulnerable to rate hikes. I think part of what we’re witnessing is a transition from government led, say, planning. And for the last two years we’ve all looked to government for leadership on this stuff. And I think we’re starting to see a transition toward private sector leadership, at least in developed countries, at least in the west, those private sector companies will feel that currency volatility in their operations in countries like Indonesia, Thailand, Turkey and so on and so forth. So it’s not going to be painless for those governments, for the people in those countries or for the companies that operate there.

KHC: Tony, delightful to have you on again. Thank you so much for your time. That was Tony Nash, chief executive of Complete Intelligence. I don’t know if you’re an investor this year. I mean, what do you do? We’re just literally 20 days into the new year and it’s been tumultuous, right?

PS: It’s choppy waters. I mean, look at year to date, right? All down. I think S&P, Dow Jones, Nasdaq, Nasdaq down 8% year to date.

KHC: Yes, but then my dad a humongous last eleven years, right? So they’ve seen the market capital explode. A bit of correction isn’t bad for the soul sometimes, but you just wonder Where’s the end inside, right?

PS: Correct. I mean, the debate is I think earnings expect to be robust, but the issue is your evaluations.

Categories
Week Ahead

The Week Ahead 09 Jan 2022

The Week Ahead - 09 Jan 2022

This is the first episode of The Week Ahead in collaboration of Complete Intelligence with Intelligence Quarterly, where experts talk about the week that just happened and what will most likely happen in the coming week.

Follow The Week Ahead experts on Twitter:

Tony: https://twitter.com/TonyNashNerd

Tracy: https://twitter.com/chigrl

Nick: https://twitter.com/nglinsman/

Albert: https://twitter.com/amlivemon

Show Notes

TN: Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining us for the week ahead. My name is Tony Nash. We’re joined today with Tracy Shuchart, Nick Glinsman and Albert Marco to talk about the markets for this past week and what’s going to happen this next week.

Guys, we saw a really dramatic market this week, a lot happening around the Fed announcements around inflation in Europe. We saw some real action around bonds. So can we talk about some of those things as well as what’s happening in energy markets? So, Tracy, could you actually get us started with what you’re seeing in energy markets?

TS: Well, obviously, we had big bounce this week in the energy markets, and a lot of that had to do with we had problems in Libya with some production offline 500,000 barrels. We also saw some big drop in Ecuador production and then Nigeria ongoing problems. And of course, we had Kazakstan, which these protests put potentially 1.6 million barrels at risk. So that was another geopolitical risk factor.

And then what we were seeing at home is because of weather, because of the cold snap we were seeing. We had Keystone down for about a day. And that brings Canadian crew to the United States. And then we’re also seeing production problems in the back end. So there were a lot of things going on in this market that propelled it higher.

TN: Okay. And what about the geopolitical problems with Europe and Russia? Is that still tightening? Do we see that still affecting gas prices in Europe?

TS: I think actually, we’ve actually seen a pullback ever since the US Calgary came with the initial 46 vessels. And then we’ve also seen countries such as the Netherlands come and say that they’re going to provide more gas, so the market is going to be volatile. It’s definitely going to remain volatile. But we have definitely seen it pull back off the highs.

TN: Good. Okay. Very good. Nick and Albert, can you talk to me a little bit about the Fed? What’s your view on the Fed remarks? And will they actually raise three times in 22?

NG: Well, actually, might be on the Fed remarks. Is it was nothing new. We knew absolutely everything. December the 15th, it was statement and then the press conference. It was very clear people just wanted to ignore it. So it’s come home to Roost. What was interesting that treasury market was already acting first day of trading and had a really good sell off. And it’s just carried on.

Now I’m wary of this Fed. Have they got the guts to actually take inflation on, or are they worried about the stock market? And there is obviously that correlation between the stock market and the economy. However, at this high level on the stock market, one wonders whether that correlation is a bit little bit looser because we have from a data point of view, whether it’s reality or not, it’s a booming economy.

And I actually had a conversation with a very well known economist on the street. It’s his own shop. And he said a couple of people he respects are talking about unemployment going sub 3% by their measure.

TN: But, Nick, that’s just a denominator function.

NG: I understand. We all know it’s not really less than 3%. But we all know that inflation is a 7.2% the forecast for next week. Okay. So I mean, this data has issues, and I’m very much aware of this issue. But the point is, if this carries on going that way and the seasonal adjustments accentuate the situation.

Plus, you’ve got to, you know, Albert mentioned this last year. There is a huge number of people retiring. So there’s a supply shortage of the labor side. It’s not just supply chains causing inflation, that labor has a supply shortage.

TN: We’ve been waiting for this for about a decade, right? For the baby to start. Really?

NG: They wanted a bit more inflation. They wanted a moving economy. They got it. Now the Fed has to show whether if the Fed goes all in on it to fight inflation, 170 is not the terminal rate on Fed funds. I think it’s going to be between two and a half or three and a half. Clearly, I’m just concerned about this Fed. In that respect, they’ve shown no willingness.

TN: Sure.

AM: I just want to add a real quick thing about that. Tony, I agree with what Nick is saying pretty much being clear on that. But from my perspective, the story is, are they going to go with inflation or are they going to have a recession? This is zero rates or rake hikes.

This market is realistically built on zero rates. Everybody knows this for them to hike. They would need some sort of stimulus program. And even then, you need lower job reports, which I think probably are coming. But even then, we have a physical flip coming in March that we have to address.

TN: Right. But, Albert, we would need a stimulus program with hikes just to stay neutral.

AM: Of course.

TN: Here’s what I don’t understand. Okay. And maybe you guys can fill me in. But the Fed has a massive balance sheet. Why even mention rates when there’s so much they can do with the balance sheet in terms of tapering being neutral and then tightening that on its own is a massive task. It seems to me that interest rates were kind of premature for that.

NG: I think they’re fearful of tantrums. My view on the tantrum side of things is either the Fed does deal with inflation. So you get then risk assets like equities will have a tantrum. It’s quite possible. And people wouldn’t expect that the bond market will have a tantrum, but it will be an inflation tantrum.

You’re right on QT quantitative tightening. I mean, they’ve got so much in the short end if they just let it roll off that’s $3 trillion in two years off the balance sheet. But then that would cause problems in the short end of the market.

TN: Yes. Previously, they didn’t start tightening for four years, right. QT didn’t start until four years after 2011 or whatever. So it was a long time, and I wouldn’t expect them to start selling off the balance sheet for an extended period of time. It’s just a matter of stopping the flow onto the balance sheet.

NG: This is the biggest hedge fund leveraged in the world.

TN: Yeah, it is. Okay. Speaking of funds, we’ve seen a little bit of rotation start in the market this week. So can you talk to us a little bit about that? And, Tracy, can you guys both talk a little bit about the rotation that’s underway in markets and how far will it go?

AM: It’s pretty clear that we’re rotating out of the US markets and out of tech going into China, possibly even Indonesia. The US market is nearing almost 60% of the entire global market. And that’s simply absurd. And just can’t go on.

Some are talking about disinflation, but the wage inflation continues to rise and the supply chain stress isn’t really getting any better. So where does the money go? Really, in my opinion, it goes to China right now. The European Union is a mess. Can’t go there. Indonesia is a likely candidate. But unless the Fed, they can’t hike rates, they need massive stimulus, everything’s rotating out of the United States and out of tech for the time being. I don’t know how long it’s going to last. I mean, I think the tech sales are maybe a couple of weeks.

The Fed needs that to pump the markets via Nasdaq. So I give it a couple of weeks, Max.

TN: Okay. Tracy?

TS: I’m looking at the rotation within just the US market and not the global markets. But we are kind of seeing a rotation from the tech sector from growth to sort of more value real assets. Right. So all week, we’ve seen the Nasdaq pull back. But oil and banking have remained very strong all week.

So I think that’s kind of where just internally where we are seeing the markets, the commodity markets have done really well this week. Metal is included.

TN: And how long does that last? Is that something that’s just a couple of weeks, or is that something that we see happening through Q1?

TS: I mean, I think it really depends on what the Fed decides to do. So if they decide to raise rates, that’s going to kill the tech market. Right. So that’s why I am of the opinion it’s going to be a one and done, because what do you sacrifice? You sacrifice the market. Right.

And are you going to do that? Is the Biden administration going to allow that sort of to happen during an election year? Right.

AM: Tracy is absolutely correct. They’re not going to let that happen. I mean, right now, the entire perception of the economy is doing well is based on the market performance for them to raise rates or rotate. And right now they’re rotating into reflationary names. I mean, that helps now, but they need the market to act. It is solid.

NG: There is a dark with that view because, as I said, either you get a tantrum equities, particularly on growth, or you get a tantrum in bonds, which then feeds into account. Because if they don’t deal with inflation, everybody’s saying, well, January base effects are fantastic. They’re high, but we’re going to benefit from thereafter.

And I’ve got this and Tracy, but I think we will attest to this. And Alberto, there is this point that as things get normalized, crude oil is going to go up because jet fuel will be in huge demand and people are going to be out moving.

In Europe, there’s no normalization of energy prices. They’re already way above normalization. You’re looking at five to six times the price of energy from last year. So this is all going to feed through the system. It goes. Fee through manufacturing services and comes out as core CPI as opposed to full CPI.

AM: Yeah, but I mean, this week, Nick, we’ve seen a 4.5 wage gain causing issues in the market. There’s…

NG: Actually my fault on the date of the day was it was actually the unemployment. They have said the natural rate is 3.6%. If you look at what happened the last time we had unemployment here, we had inflation at I think it was 4% ten year yields with 270%.

AM: Yeah, I understand that, Nick, but everyone right now is talking about disinflation thinking that inflation is going to come down because the bet is going to help push it down. But how do you get rid of wage inflation? There is no way you can sit there and take…

TS: You’re not going to get rid of supply chain issues either.

NG: Push inflation. This is where it’s changed. And I don’t think these central bank staff has realized have accepted this that everything prior to the pandemic was demand poor cost push. So whole different ballgame. They’ve already said they can’t control price of commodities.

Actually, they can because they can. That’s the point. But the point I’m making is we’ve crossed the Rubicon from something that I’m not saying demand hall has gone away. But we’ve crossed the Rubicon from something that would be affected by monetary policy and financial tightening to something that is not going Redux is rough to charge.

TN: Okay. Before we go on there, there are two questions. First, Nick, you said either there’s an equity side tantrum or there’s a bondside tantrum, which is worse.

NG: Oh, the bondside tantrum. Okay. That will also be feed through to the equity market.

TN: Right. Okay. So the bondside tantrum is worse.

NG: For everybody that Feds behind the curve and London control.

TN: Right. And I think that’s well understood. The other question I have is Tracy mentioned one and done. Do we all think the Fed is kind of going to do a one and done? I mean, that’s my view. It sounds like it’s Tracy’s view, Albert, is that what you think?

AM: So I absolutely think so. They can’t let this thing melt down. They’ll bring it down to, like 4400, but that’s it.

TN: Okay. Nick, do you think it’s one and done?

NG: I’m putting my old hat on as a bond market person. Yeah, because they’ll then have to do QE because the bond market won’t sit there.

AM: They will do QE. They will absolutely do QE. They haven’t signed up and they control the bond market as it is anyway, so they can do whatever they want right now. There’s nobody else in the world that can hold us accountable for what they do.

TN: Are you saying QE and Q two? Do you expect QE and Q two?

AM: Absolutely.

TN: Okay. That’s very interesting. All right. I like that. I think that as a thesis is very interesting.

NG: By the way, the rest of the world may need it.

TN: Absolutely. I think they will.

AM: Of course they do.

NG: I’ve got a great piece of trade Union wage claim in Europe. This is hysterical. So the ECB says inflation is going to trend back to the forecast. 2%. It’s all transit free. The guard still on holiday, but she’ll never die by that.

Every person at the ACB by the governors is a member of the ECB trade Union. Do you know what their claim is right now for this year?

TN: They need wage acts.

NG: I think that’s a tell. Oh, yeah, it’s a tell, right. I think other countries may need the Fed’s help. That’s where I veered back towards Albert. In that respect, I don’t know my traditionalist central bank.

TN: Yes, I don’t doubt that at all. Okay, let’s start looking ahead to kind of next week. We’ve got wholesale inventories, NFL, small business, CPI. We’ve got retail sales coming on. What do you expect to happen next week?

Do we expect, say, retail sales to kind of be moderate or do we expect the CPI to moderate, or do we think things will continue as they have been?

NG: I’m an inflation. So I think CPI will be problematic and we’ve seen this inflation data. The estimates have been lower than the actual. So I’m sort of expecting that to occur.

Retail sales. I’ve not really got a view. To be honest.

AM: I think retail sales are going to come in a little bit higher than most people think. I think the luxury market right now is just absolutely on fire. A lot of free money has just been floating around the system and people have been buying things left and right.

I mean, even the credit card data show that consumers have just used more credit. It’s pretty clear.

NG: Okay, so we’re 2% ten year yield. It’s a possibility next week there.

TN: So also the small business survey, the small businesses that I know from auto manufacturers to other things. They’re having a really hard time. So do you think NFIB is going to continue to be positive, or do you think it’s going to trend out?

AM: I think we’re going to go down. I think the entire reason that they’ve been talking about a new business stimulus program in DC.

TS: Exactly 100%. I think we’re definitely going to go see that slowing down, slowing economy.

AM: They need it because they need stimulus anyways in March. So might as well start throwing money around everywhere.

TN: Right. So build back better. Is that dead, or are they going to try to take another run at it this month?

AM: They’ll take another run at it, but it’ll be toned down and probably separated into different pieces.

TN: Okay. Do you think it will ultimately pass and be one and a half trillion or something like that?

AM: I think it’ll be a part of a stimulus hybrid program of build back better with business stimulus program in mind. So it’ll probably be around two and a half trillion.

TN: Two and a half trillion. Okay. Anybody else have a view on that?

NG: With the emphasis on the stimulus as opposed to the build back better.

TN: I think you’re right now.

TS: Yeah, I personally don’t think build back better is going to pass anytime soon.

NG: Great question for Albert Finabaster won’t be broken with it.

AM: No, they’d be absolutely insane for them to try to do that. They know the GOP is going to have the House and the Senate for them to sit there and break the filibuster. It would just lead to absolute chaos for a lot of different policies.

TN: Bad news. That’s really bad news.

AM: If they get rid of the filibuster and they pass that voting law, the next thing that’s going to happen is the GOP is going to use the same method to have voter ID for the entire country and under the same reason and why they want to get rid of the filibuster. It’s a car bout. Really. It’s not an entirely.

NG: Voter ID in Europe is good to go. Everybody has it.

AM: Yes, I know. But this is the United States. I mean, nowhere in the world does about the United States. So we have to differentiate what happens in Europe.

TN: Yes, we do. All right. So what are you guys expecting to see next week? Are we expecting to see this rotation intensify. Nick, what are you expecting to see in say, bonds? Do you see further action in bonds or are we kind of at two for now?

NG: Well, look, I think think we ten years can go from. I always look at the ten year and in fact, many institutions is five. But the ten years gives you enough of the long bond and the inflation out of it. We’re at 176. 77 today close. If the data is strong, we go to two. Yeah. That becomes very interesting.

I mean, we travel a long way this week, right?

TN: Yes.

NG: And if you look at the CFTC data, the market is not short. A lot of blood was built for cause of last year people slowly stepping themselves in where I’m really interested. I mean, if that happens, we continue to see growth to that value.

What I’m interested in is I think the dollar rebounds on Monday. The dollar seems to have days with that lag to what the interest rate markets do. Albert and I have been speaking about this, but I’m interested to see, even with dollar strength, we’ve seen strength in the commodities market. And this is one of our thesis is China is going to be replaced by the Green Revolution.

We found a wonderful study in France that was reported in one of the French dailies that was talking about 60% of copper will be used up in about two or three years. And then he went through all the other key metals for the metal. I think actually, copper go quicker because of the new left winger in Chile.

TN: So you think dollar appreciation and commodities at least industrial metals appreciation for the, say foreseeable future.

NG: I think the whole complex crazy, and that’s where this time around will be rather like people’s disbelief in equities. How can we keep going this time around? We can have the whole commodity complex elevated.

TN: That’s really scary.

TS: I absolutely agree. Absolutely. Well, I mean, my three main themes in the commodities markets since last year and going into at least 2025 is metals, oil and gas and agriculture.

TN: Fantastic. Okay.

AM: I actually think the tech market is going to make a rebound next week just because the Fed is probably defending the 50 day moving average. I think we see a rebound up until the middle of the week next week.

TN: Wonderful guys. Thanks so much for this. Look forward to doing it again next week for everyone watching. Please, like our Twitter page or our YouTube page. Sorry. So you can get alarms for next week. All right.

Thanks, guys. And have a great week ahead.

TS , AM, NG: Thank you.