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CNA’s Asia First: US market pullback, less intense fear of COVID

Tony Nash joins the Asia First team again for another look at the US market pullback. What was the reason for that — is it the Biden’s VP candidate, the stimulus, or others? Also discussed were the market sentiments and what Nash thinks is lacking in the US economy right now. He also shared what Americans feel about COVID right now and what it means for businesses. Lastly, they discussed East Asia versus South Asia.

 

This video is the segment of Tony Nash from the August 12, 2020 full-length video episode, which was originally published by CNA for their Asia First show. You can find the source https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/video-on-demand/asia-first/wed-12-aug-2020-13015722 

 

Show Notes

 

CNA: Tony Nash joins us now. He’s founder and CEO Complete Intelligence. He’s speaking to us from Houston, Texas, USA. Tony, we’re seeing this pullback in the markets overnight. I don’t know if it comes as a surprise to you. Is this the realization that the stimulus package might not be imminent. Is this who Biden has picked for a running mate or are there other factors at play here that have influenced the market?

 

TN: It’s really more about yields than anything. We’ve seen the impact of yields on precious metals. The impact on silver was most dramatic. But with equities, we saw a little bit of a pullback then. But we don’t necessarily feel like equities are in at a correction point at the moment. It might be some political news on Joe Biden’s VP candidate but I don’t necessarily see that being a disappointment. I don’t think there were huge expectations there.

 

There isn’t big COVID news in the U.S. There’s not necessarily major China news outside of the Alex Azar’s visit to Taiwan and the Hong Kong stuff, but there isn’t huge market impact on that. So really, it’s about yields and it’s about the expectation of stimulus.

 

CNA: Right, how much further downside do you see for the markets then?

 

TN: In the U.S., we think markets are fairly healthy assuming stimulus is coming. Now, U.S. legislators have gone for the rest of the summer. But there’s really nothing keeping Trump from issuing more stimulus like what he did over the weekend. I mean, there are things legally but he’s issued an executive order over the weekend to do that and it was a fair bit of stimulus coming down the pike.

 

What’s missing is stimulus for small and mid-sized businesses, which we had in May, June, but that really dried up at the end of July. So, we’ve seen almost 200,000 small businesses close in the U.S..

 

Really the question is, will there be more stimulus there in terms of cash flow to help the demand issues that small and medium-sized businesses are seeing in the U.S.? One of the key things that we’re finding, over the last week we’ve seen a lot of clarity come around whether American kids will go back to school at the end of August or in September. We’re seeing more and more school districts coming online saying yes they want kids back in school. Many of them in person some of them virtually but that helps American workers get back into the office as needed and where needed and gives them focus. So I would expect productivity to improve quite a lot in Q3 as parents and kids are back in school and many of them are back there physically.

 

CNA: But the case counts in the country. I mean, that certainly is weighing on sentiment is it not? And you know the idea that the country hasn’t quite got a hold on it, there is a possibility that they will have to start, stop the economy and it’s not as straightforward as going ahead with those lockdowns. When you do it a second, third time, that’s just going to have this permanent damage to the U.S. economy?

 

TN: Sure, that’s right. But I think the focus in the U.S. has really gone away from case counts. People are really looking at mortality. They’re really looking at clusters. They’re really looking at transmissibility. And so, I think in the U.S., the sentiment and the desire to close down. Generally, people are kind of over it. The fear of COVID is not as intense as it was two months ago. People realize that it’s a disease, it’s a virus. It comes and goes. The incidence rate and the death rate is actually fairly low.

 

The U.S. has done tens of millions of tests and so people are realizing that the high case counts are very related to the tests and this is going out through a lot of different mechanisms at the state level and the national level in the US. It’s not to say it’s gone. It’s not to say that we have zero cases. But a lot of countries in a lot of locations that say they have zero cases. I’m not necessarily sure that the testing is being done as thoroughly as it could be.

 

CNA: All right we’re also seeing that improvement of economic indicators in the Asian region, industrial output, some export figures look like they are on the uptrend in China for example. How much of this is going to be a divergent play east Asia versus south Asia for example?

 

TN: We really see east Asia lagging, although the Chinese data like the auto data that came in yesterday it looks okay. On year on year basis it looks pretty good. But I’m not necessarily convinced that that’s sustainable, given the demand issues that we saw in the first half of the year. There are ongoing worries that we’ll see issues in China’s economy and political issues in China with Hong Kong and other places.

 

We’re expecting east Asian markets to really not do well this month. We’ve expected kind of more than a one percent decline this month in east asian markets generally between say one and three percent based on the market in south Asia because they’re less China connected. We expect them to be flat to slightly down. So,  this month generally we’re expecting a slight pullback in Asia but south Asia fares a bit better than east Asia, although it’s not that dramatic.

 

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COVID-19 effects on the US Economy

As the COVID-19 effects hit in the US, more than 3 million Americans lost their jobs last week. Reports also show a sluggish growth on personal consumption. The Fed Chairman says the US may already be in recession. We are joined by Tony Nash, CEO and Founder of Complete Intelligence, from Houston, Texas.

 

CNA: We’ve got this incredible amount of stimulus in the system, and the market seems loving it. The fundamentals of COVID-19 are getting worse, but the markets seem to be moving another direction. Is there a disconnect?

 

TN: I don’t think there is. I think there are two things. First, people want better information. With the testing and other things. Not all tests are created equally. We are not told the denominator of the tests. I’m not an expert, but there are some issues around that not all countries’ numbers are created equally. But the 2 trillion dollar stimulus, it’s not possible that that’s the extent of the stimulus that the US government is going to issue.

 

This is a government-induced recession, globally. A recession is typically an economic failure, a financial failure. What has happened is that governments have effectively turned down the economy like putting their economies in a coma. So there’s nothing that companies can do to avoid this. This is the responsibility of every government that puts strict measures in place and it’s their responsibility to make sure that their economies are back up.

 

CNA: Are you concerned about the cost to cushion the fall of COVID-19 effects? Remember the 2008 financial crises and how much money it took back then—hundreds and billions? We are now talking about trillions here. When will we able to see the kind of recovery that we saw in the past 10 years once we’re over COVID-19?

 

TN: I do believe we’ll see that recovery. I believe this is sufficiently different. It was not the market’s fault. This was the investor market, investor banks back in 2008, 2009. This is the government today. So it’s the government’s responsibility to fix what they did. I understand they’re responding to COVID-19 and its effects, but they’re the ones to put the measures in place. They’re the ones to handcuff managers, CEOs, and executive teams. So it’s the government’s responsibility to help companies start back up.

 

CNA: On that note, Donald Trump wants the American workforce to get back to their jobs as everybody wants to work. I don’t doubt that. Do you agree with that? Is that the solution, the elixir to the problem here?

 

TN: I do believe that. I’m actually more worried about the social issues associated with jobless dislocation than really the COVID-19 effects. Not that I don’t care. I want everyone to take measures. But the social dislocation of people in their prime working age. Being laid off. We have 3 million of them as reported today. These are people in their prime. They’re earning and they’re losing their jobs. We’re gonna see a lot of problems. And so, depression, suicide, all sorts of things.

 

My fear is that those things start to manifest in the next few weeks. So the US has to get back to work. Americans have to get back to work. Otherwise, people will be short on their bills and they’ll feel incredibly stressed.

 

CNA: How bad do you think the economic data is going to get? Now that we got the 3.3 million jobless claims out of the United States? Is this just going to continue to get worse and worse down the pipeline here?

 

TN: Oh yeah. I think it will get worse until probably the third week of April or maybe the 4th week of April. We’ll continue to see this over the next month until the hump. Once we get over the hump, we’ll see, once the fiscal stimulus starts to take place, which is the big difference this time.

 

We’re seeing a lot of fiscal stimulus. That’s the difference. It’s not just the Fed printing dollars, of course, that’s happening. But we’re seeing fiscal stimulus going straight to end consumers. That’s very important.

 

CNA: What can we learn from China’s response in this situation? It seems things are returning back to normal in China with Hubei province opening up, Wuhan in 2 weeks, traffic jams in Beijing. Can the US look forward to that extrapolation? What’s happening in China, coz I mean the capital markets in China have made a decent recovery as well.

 

TN: I think the US is going to come back pretty aggressively in say the last week of April or early May. I don’t see that the way the US is handling it is similar to China, given the civil liberties that Americans have, there’s absolutely no way that that would work in America.

 

We have a thing called the 4th Amendment in the US that allows people to assemble and leave their houses. So welding people in their apartments wouldn’t work here, and so the US had to take other measures. And I actually think it’s being fairly effective. The case count in the US looks like it’s high, but I’m not convinced that we’re seeing full reporting from any other countries.

 

CNA: Thanks so much, great to chat with you. Stay safe there in Houston, Texas.

 

 

Watch the interview on Channel News Asia’s Asia First. 

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Is coronavirus the straw that’s going to break the camel’s back of the US bull market run?

Tony Nash, CEO and founder of Complete Intelligence, is a guest on Asia First of Channel News Asia and was asked if COVID19 (coronavirus) will stop the US bull market run, the why’s of the way market is moving, mandatory policies, and what investors should do. Below are the show notes:

 

Is coronavirus the straw that’s going to break the camel’s back of the US bull market run?

I don’t think so. I think what we’re seeing is a view that it’s good to be paranoid/worried. We need to remember that the markets here is in a pretty euphoric state, and had a rapid acceleration since then. A lot of markets are looking for a reason to be more defensive, some see that the market is a little overvalued.

 

Why are markets moving the way they are — they’re important parts of the value chain but they’re not China? 

In the US, we have business optimism, consumer optimism at high numbers. There is a lot of positive momentum here. COVID19 is a catalyst to bring for a lot of people at getting defensive. But the fatality rate is very small. 66% of China’s manufacturing capacity is back on. It seems China made a decision to make them working and spending again.

 

How about mandatory policies? What are the odds that the Fed will cut given the possible impact of Coronavirus on the economy?

I don’t think the Fed will cut, and they will wait to see how and if it gets bad. We have a really strong dollar now. And if other countries become more aggressive without the US being aggressive, the depreciation of their currencies become problematic for their debt market and their trade balance. We need to be careful about the central banks in emerging markets becoming more aggressive in supporting their economies. It’s very complex math from here on out.

 

Are you seeing Beijing not letting certain companies fail?

They are in a position where they can. China has put these measures in place. I don’t think anybody blamed China for the measures they’re taking to get their economy back on track. It’s other countries where there is a lower incidence of the virus, where people become more skeptical, from a central banking perspective.

 

What is the portfolio re-alignment that you are suggesting?

It looks like people are getting defensive. This isn’t at all surprising. People are waiting for a couple of weeks.

It seems that the broad market in the West is becoming aware of the risk of COVID 19, which is good for the robustness of markets in the medium term. As these investors get accustomed to COVID19, they will factor that into their risks. But right now, it seems to be a shocking risk and so short term we should just expect more volatility.

 

Watch the interview on Channel News Asia.