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Consumer Sentiment Will Dampen Outlook

Corporate earnings are pretty much in line with expectations — where are stocks heading now? And what about the Congress-approved stimulus package, will that help the market this year? Also, with the rising Covid cases again in the US and China, how will this affect the two countries? Both countries have drastically low consumption. How much effect does one have to another? Lastly, will crude continue on the downtrend?

 

This podcast first appeared and originally published at https://www.bfm.my/podcast/morning-run/market-watch/consumer-sentiment-will-dampen-outlook on August 17, 2021.

 

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Show Notes

 

WSN: The business station BFM 89 nine good morning is 07:00 Tuesday, the 17 August and you’re listening to the morning run. I’m Wong Shou Ning and joining me in the studio this morning is Philip See. In the meantime, how are markets, Philip? Because I think it’s a bit of a red day.

 

PS: Yes, it was a red day, but actually the down SMP hit record higher up 3% other than the SEC was down 2%. Now if you cross over to Asia pack, it was also, as you said, a red day. Nikkei was down one 6% hunting negative 8%. Although in Shanghai marginally up zero 3%. Singapore was down 6%. Back home, a BNI interesting development went down quite a bit but recovered a bit to basically just be down 2% yeah.

 

WSN: Actually, I would have to say the LCI did better than expectations. The ring it actually initially weakened, but it’s somewhat recovered to the US dollar 4.2370. The currencies are always the first thing that gets hit, but against the pound is 5.8651 and against the sin dollar is 3.1250. Whether there’ll be continued weakness over the next two days is going to be a question Mark. We have to bear in mind that foreign are holding for equities is probably an all time low at 20%. Something will be asking Alexander Chia, regional head of research at RHB at 915 later on this morning.

 

So do tune in. But in the meantime, we’re going to find out where global markets are hidden with Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Good Morning Tony, thanks for speaking to us again. Now, US markets, despite a bit of a wobbly start, they seem to recover. They’re at their peaks and corporate earnings pretty much in line with expectations, although this week I think it’s going to be a heavy week for earnings. Now, which direction do you think stocks are set to trade ahead of the fat minutes that are supposed to be out this week?

 

TN: Well, ahead of the minutes. I think we’ll continue to see more of the same. The Fed is really in charge of markets now. We’ve seen earnings come in really stellar over the last few weeks, and we’ll continue to see that for ’23, ’22 earnings. But we’re expecting three earnings really to come in a little flat. We’ve started to see some people say that their revenues are down and to issue some earning warnings. I wouldn’t say before Wednesday, but I would say over the next few weeks we expect to see more rotations going on. We’ve seen rotations away from tech over the last few weeks and we expect to see some defensive rotation in the next couple of weeks, consumer cyclicals utilities, consumer staples, utilities, health care and so on.

 

PS: Do you think the stimulus packages that were approved by Congress will add a bit of steam going forward?

 

TN: Well, I think the infrastructure package is going to take ten years, really, that’s going to be spent over a decade. They’re going to claim that it’s going to be spent quickly, but it can’t really. And plus, it’s less than half a trillion dollars or something like that. So that money trickled out over ten years or something. I think there’s a rule of thumb for infrastructure is in. It has a 1.6 times economic impact. So let’s say it was 300 or $500 billion. It would be 1.5 times that impact on the economy.

 

So it will have a decent impact. It will just be spent over a protracted period of time. There are the budget cap battles coming up over the next two to three months in the US. So there’s a real expectation that a lot of the stimulus that the Congress has planned may not necessarily be approved because of the budget cap discussions that are coming up.

 

WSN: Meanwhile, Tony, I want to look at the relationship between US and China because we do know that the China themselves are battling the Covid crisis again and the recovery the data seems to be faltering in terms of how strong the economy is. How related are both these countries?

 

TN: Yeah. The worrying part about China right now, of course, COVID and a lot of the issues there. But we’re also seeing ports really start to really slow down. A lot of the throughput factories slow down, and it’s really concerning. So despite the red upgrades we’ve seen over the last several years about the US and China, they are really important trade partners, and their economies are really, really tied. So when we see a dramatic slowdown in China that affects everybody in Asia, it affects the US. When you see a slowdown in the US, it affects China. It affects Europe. So we don’t want to see a slowdown in China, seeing the resurgence of COVID and the impact on the economy. There is not good for anybody. Least of all US.

 

And so we still have a lot of supply chain issues globally, partly owing two COVID slowdown in China, Japan, Korea, elsewhere. Right. So we don’t want to see this. We will see restrictions in the US, not code restrictions, but restrictions to supply chains because of issues coming out of China again. And so this is bad all around. And we want China to succeed. Everyone wants China to succeed. So they’re in a boat together.

 

PS: But, yeah, in a double whammy. Right. China consumptions spent sentiment is at an all time low. And also US consumption sentiment is also registering a drastic drop in August. What does this mean for the US dollar and treasuries?

 

TN: No. Right. So with the US, we have inflationary pressure. We have pressure, workforce pressure. It’s been hard to fill spots. And companies we also have the central government stimulus is wearing off. And so with all three of those things happening, it’s a really rough period for consumers. And for companies. So we had what’s called the New York Fed Manufacturing Index come in today and excel from a a month reading is 43. This month’s reading is 18. Anything above zero is grow. So it’s still growing, but it’s slowed down dramatically. Companies, manufacturing companies are seeing things slow down. This is because of things like new orders. Slowing down. Shipments are slowing down. Orders that are on hold are rising. Consumers and manufacturers have started to feel it dramatically in August.

 

WSN: Okay. And the other thing we want to ask you about is oil, which is related to consumer behavior. I have noticed that Brent crude is $69 a barrel. WTI dropped to $67 per barrel. It’s been three days of declines. What are your expectations in terms of all prices? Is this the beginning of a downward trend?

 

TN: We’ve included is kind of range trading for a few months. I think just today, OPEC announced that they’re going to deny Biden’s request to increase their output because of peer pressure and all prices. So we think that Cuba bounce between saying mid 60s and the 70s somewhere in that range for quite some time. If we do see things and trying to get worse, if we do see more coded lockdowns and restrictions, and of course, we see downside there. I’m hoping, although the rate of recovery is slowing down, our hope is that it stays positive.

 

Okay, that way will contingency pressure on cure prices, but it will be in a range because OPEC still have something like 6 million barrels a day sitting on the sidelines, so they can always come in to add additional resources to reduce prices if needed.

 

WSN: All right. Thank you for your time. That was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence, BFM 89.9.

 

 

 

Categories
QuickHit

OPEC+, JCPOA & Delta Variant: Strength or weakness for oil & gas prices?

Energy commodities experts Tracy Shuchart and Sam Madani joined forces in this special #QuickHit episode to talk about crude, OPEC+, JCPOA, and how lockdowns will affect the market this year. Most importantly, how investors should plan?

 

Tracy writes for a Hedge Fund Telemetry, where she is the energy and material strategist. She also manages an energy and materials portfolio for a family office. Meanwhile, Samir Madani is the co-founder of TankerTrackers.com. They’re an online service that keeps track of oil that’s being shipped around the world. His specialty is the tricky tankers, the ones that like to play according to the rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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This QuickHit episode was recorded on July 17, 2021.

 

The views and opinions expressed in this OPEC+, JCPOA & Delta Variant: Strength or weakness for oil & gas prices? QuickHit episode are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any contents provided by our guest are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

 

Show Notes

 

TN: We’ve seen kind of an uplifting crude prices. We’ve seen things like copper prices come down, natural gas prices really start to see some upward pressure recently. At the same time, we’re seeing talk about the JCPOA and some other Middle East type of changes with OPEC+ and UAE and Saudi. What’s your thoughts on the crude and natural gas markets? We can talk about commodities generally.I know that’s a big, wide open question. Tracy, do you want to give us generally your view and some of your positioning at the moment?

 

TS: Well, I’m very bullish on commodities, particularly industrial metals, base metals and minerals needed for this energy transition. So copper and things of that nature.

 

COMEX Copper forecasts for 2021

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We have seen a little bit of a pullback in a lot of commodities, which is not surprising. We had such a large move up. However, everybody’s looking at this as a group like the CRB index rate has pulled back. But if you look at individual commodities, you’re still seeing iron ore still at highs. So it’s not like a whole commodity collapse. You’re still seeing strength in a lot of different areas.

 

So my positioning is instead of index, I’m positioned in individual stocks and particularly on the minor side, because minors are going to have the same capex problem that oil is having.

 

TN: OK, that’s a great point. Sam, what’s your view like generally with with energy?

 

SM: I remain bullish when it comes to oil in particular, and I pat myself on the back for having gone long in at the end of March last year, when the the mutual funds were at the all time lowest in regards to oil. And that’s come up quite a lot since then.

 

I do believe that we will probably find a good footholding now in the 70s. And in order for that to remain, I think something drastic is going to have to happen on the upward probably scathe $100 and come back down so that the OPEC can look like the good guys in the mid 70s. So I think also because of the fact that there’s a capex shortage in the oil sector, they need this revenue to come in order to sustain production as well.

 

My original intended investment horizon was around three to four years. I’m going to be cutting that short until September of next year because the issue that we have now is that the lockdowns are still in effect in many areas, but also when it comes to Europe where I’m situated, most of the inoculations have only gone through the first phase. So we’re still waiting for the second shot and therefore this summer will be delayed. We’re not going to be traveling everywhere like we were in 2019. Instead, that will happen most likely next summer.

 

There’s still one big run up towards the three-digit oil price and that would be most likely to happen next year rather than now.

 

WTI Crude Oil Forecast for 2021

This is CI Futures July forecast for COMEX Copper this YTD.

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TN: So you brought up OPEC. There’s been news this week around OPEC+ and a deal with Saudi and UAE and some other Middle East dynamics. What’s your view on that? How much downward pressure will that put on crude markets?

 

TS: Because of those factors in the Middle East, because I am of a belief we will see a deal and we will get some more barrels on the market, the market is actually very tight right now. But we’re also having lockdowns in some places in Asia. So right now, we already are seeing a pullback in crude. Until we get a little bit more certain that 65-75 range will probably hold us for a while, I see some consolidation there and after $115 move from the lows last year, it makes sense for oil to chill out, consolidate here a little bit.

 

TN: Sam, what’s your view on the kind of OPEC+, Saudi, UAE and other kind of OPEC countries wanting to tag along on the UAE?

 

SM: I think one issue that they themselves want to know is status of the JCPOA. They really want to know how much of an issue Iran would be if their balance come back to market. Now, that’s a big if.

 

But if we look at what happened during the Trump administration, the United States pulled out of the deal and that was not good optics for the U.S. side. But now what’s happened is that Iran is not complying with the deal. So the ball is now in their court instead. So the Biden administration is saying, yes, the United States wants to be part of the deal, even though it’s not a very popular deal in the US. I don’t see any popular support for it. It’s more of a let’s just get back in there so Iran can improve its compliance. But they’re not improving their compliance. Instead, what they’re doing is going the other direction and they’re increasing their enrichment. They’re becoming more brazen about how they move around the world with Navy vessels and so on.

 

And now, of course, there’s an Iranian president that’s going to take office in August. So I think the deal will play fall apart instead because of the fact that Iran is not complying.

 

TN: If the deal falls apart, does that chaos help oil prices, meaning rise or does it create the perception that there will be a dramatically larger supply in the market?

 

SM: I think the initial reaction will be that, “Oh, these barrels are not going to be reentering the market, therefore the price will go higher.” So that’s the first automated response. But then, you know, the dust will begin to settle after a while when there’s an understanding of what kind of barrels are not entering the market.

 

So in Iran’s case, they are shipping sour crude. Whether it’s light or heavy, it’s sour. In order for that oil to become sweet, which is more attractive, you have to de-sulfur the oil. And so Iran, what they do is they give you a discount if you want to buy light sweet oil, but then they’re buying like sour oil. Iran gives $10 discount, for instance, and then they just remove the sulfur at the refinery at their own expense. And that’s what’s causing, for instance, West Africa to lower their exports. So moving out a lot less oil now out of Africa than before on account of China buying more Iranian oil instead.

 

TS: I think what people forget, there’s already a lot of Iranian oil on the market. So even if they came back at production of 4 to 4.5 million, it’s not really a lot of extra added barrels that are not already on the market.

 

SM: Exactly. And it will be absorbed by the demand that’s coming of course.

 

TN: But it seems to me the kind of perception of legitimacy that would come through JCPOA may calm prices down a bit through the kind of perception of legitimacy of that supply?

 

TS: Yeah. I mean, if it came to fruition, which I don’t foresee it, I have to agree with Sam on this point. But yeah, the market would think, oh, OK, we have all these barrels coming on even though there isn’t, and that it would be a numbers game from there, then you’d have to see supply and demand numbers from the various agencies monthly reports.

 

SM: And the thing also does not happen overnight. So even if the process of JCPOA happens and Biden finally signs, for instance, initially a waiver, the whole process takes forever to reboot again. We saw it last time. Remember Tracy back in years ago, it took many months.

 

And also in the case of Iran, most of their domestic national fleet is tied up containing gas condensate. So they have around 70 million barrels of gas condensates floating. And that used up nearly all of the VLCC supertankers, the ones that can carry two million barrels. So what Iran has done is they put additional vessels, vintage VLCC. So now they have 200 vessels as opposed to 70. And those are the ones, the foreign flagged vessels that are moving the oil mostly to China.

 

TN: You both mentioned lockdowns earlier in the conversation. And I think the tone here is that we have a pretty strong basis for rising crude prices. But we’ve seen some moves over the last week in the Netherlands and California and other places for maybe not full lockdowns, but more severe compliance with masks and other things and that seems to be leading toward potentially some lockdowns. First of all, if there are lockdowns coming, what would be driving that? And we all know about the Delta variant and stuff. But are there political factors that would be driving that? Second of all, if there were, how would that impact the six to nine month view of crude markets for you guys?

 

TS: The United States is so big, I don’t believe that they’re going to lock down the whole country again. It just won’t happen. You would literally have riots on the streets in some places. So I don’t foresee that happening. I could see some of the states like California just reinstated their mask mandates. I’ve been watching those states that kind of had more severe lockdowns to begin with like Michigan. If they’d lockdown again in the fall, that would probably be more politically motivated, but we’ll have to see what the numbers are and whatnot.

 

As far as my crude view, I’m very bullish on crude. But that doesn’t mean like I’m expecting a $100 tomorrow. How I’m invested is longer term. So I’m invested for at least the next five years or so.

 

And I do believe that if we get through the fall and we don’t have lockdowns in the United States, Europe and Asia, then I definitely think six to nine months, we’re back in the swing of things, because that’ll put us right to basically next spring when oil demand really starts.

 

TN: Sam, what’s your view in Europe on lockdowns? Do you see that stuff coming back and how do you see that impacting consumption?

 

SM: I would think that it would be mostly in the countries with the high population density. Germany is obviously one of those countries and the UK is another. In other countries, not so much the case. I live here in Sweden. We never had lockdowns. So we had seniors living in retirement homes and so on. But then, we pretty much met the same statistic level as every other country — 10% population suffer through it, 1% or so perished as a result. But I don’t think that we’ll be seeing any big efforts on locking down countries again.

 

And what’s more interesting now is schools are coming up in a couple of months or at least a month and a half. Here in Sweden, life will pretty much continue as is. I have four kids and none of them missed more than a week of school, throughout the entire ordeal since 2020.

 

TN: So it sounds to me like you both see there may be some lockdowns at the edges, but it doesn’t sound like it’s something you expect to affect the mainstream. Maybe we see a slight dip in the rate of rise of demand. But it doesn’t sound like it’ll have a huge impact to the downside on energy prices generally, whether it’s crude or natgas or something like that. Is that fair to say?

 

SM: Yep.

 

TS: Absolutely.

 

TN: When it comes to natural gas, Tracy, I know you’ve been talking about that a lot lately. Can you tell us a little bit about your observations and your thesis and and what you’re seeing there?

 

TS: For natural gas, the reason I like it is it’s the great transition fuel especially for emerging markets, because it’s very inexpensive than to go straight into something like solar or wind just because the cost of those minerals and metals can make those are skyrocketing right now. So natural gas is abundant. It’s a great transition fuel. It’s cleaner burning than oil.

 

We just saw the EU green deal, they just stepped back and now are including that gas, whereas before there was no oil or gas, because I think they’re also realizing that it’s inexpensive, it’s a good transition fuel. If you look at Germany, there’s still a lot of coal going on in Germany. So for Europe, it’s not like fossil fuels are gone.

 

I think they realize also it’s an inexpensive transition fuel. In particular for the United States, what I like right now is we’re seeing European natgas ETF and JKM, which is the Asian natgas, are trading at significantly higher than the United States is right now. And so I think there is opportunity there because the US can export and still come in at a lower cost, even with the cost of transportation to Europe or to Asia.

 

TN: Interesting. Living in Texas, I have to say that I love that message. Sam, what about the tanker fleet? Is the global tanker fleet ready to to provide the capacity needed to power EMs with, say, American natgas or Middle Eastern natgas?

 

SM: So natgas, I haven’t checked too much. But tankers in general, the demand is not that great right now. When I say that, I mean that usually, they really step up to the plate whenever there’s a floating storage opportunity to talk about. So you had that case in Q2 of last year, and that really drove up the prices from the growing normal rate of 20,000 barrels a day to 500,000. That spike.

 

And it’s come down so much. Complete occupancy is far lower than what I normally see if I talk about the tonnage and it’s around under 40%, which is very little. We were looking at April of last year, it was around north of 55, close to 60%. So that’s a big swing. And that really crushed the prices for tanker rates. They’re even negative. Below zero. But when I look at the transfers of illicit oil, it’s around $38,000 a day. So there’s a lot lot of money to be made in those transfers, unfortunately. But for nat-G, I’m not entirely sure. So I can’t say for sure.

 

TN: OK, very good. Guys, thank you so much for your time. This has been really helpful. I’m really intrigued by kind of the long bull thesis for energy because we hope that we’re going to start recovering much quicker than we had been, which is fantastic. So thanks for your time. I really appreciate. Always, I really appreciate talking with you guys. Thanks very much.

Categories
Podcasts

Manage Your Expectations, Valuations Are Stretched

Tony Nash joins the BFM team, giving them his views on the equity markets, fixed income market, Fed Reserve, and oil prices. What’s his recommendation to investors now that Dow, S&P 500, and more equity markets have reached a new all-time highs? And what about the consensus on oil? With all the changes in the markets, are we seeing a new economic model?

 

This podcast first appeared and originally published at https://www.bfm.my/podcast/morning-run/market-watch/manage-your-expectations-valuations-are-stretched on July 8, 2021.

 

❗️ Check out more of our insights in featured in the CI Newsletter and QuickHit interviews with experts.

❗️ Discover how Complete Intelligence can help your company be more profitable with AI and ML technologies. Book a demo here.

 

Show Notes

 

PS: Really good day in the U.S. The Dow and S&P 500 were up 0.3%. The Nasdaq was flat. Shanghai is up 0.7%. But the rest of Asian markets were down negative. Heng Seng was -0.4%. Nikkei down 1%, FTI down 1.5%. And back home, FBI culture was also down 0.01%.

 

WSN: So to help us make sense of where markets are going, we speak to Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Now, Tony, Nasdaq, S&P 500, Dow, all hit all-time highs. Does this make you actually nervous? Markets looking a bit toppish?

 

TN: I don’t know about toppish today, but I guess what people have to be aware of is how big is the gain from here? So whether you’re toppish now or toppish in October, you really have to be careful about the risk calculation right now and what your expectations are as things turn over in the coming quarter or two.

 

PS: But time to switch for anything. What asset classes or markets look attractive now?

 

TN: You know what. I think you just got to be careful all around. The expectation, evaluations, levels of investment, profits and so on seem pretty stretched as we’re in the middle of wage pressures, inflation pressures and stressed consumers. So I think there seems to be more risk than opportunity out there. So I think we’re in a pretty stretched market and short of more support from global governments. It’s really hard to justify significantly higher valuations.

 

SM: And everyone is, of course, looking at the Fed, where last night’s FOMC minutes, what financial markets expected from the Fed or or do you think they could have given more clarity on their monetary policy?

 

TN: Well, they can always give more clarity. I mean, there’s always kind of reading the tea leaves with the Fed. But I think what really came out of it was what was expected. It was pretty noncommittal. They said tapering is coming, but they didn’t say it’s coming soon. There’s no expectation of a rate hike hike soon. So it’s really the current status quo, whatever that is. But it’s kind of more of the same for more time.

 

We don’t really expect much to change in the Fed through 2022. Markets have sufficient headwinds as it is as the world re-normalizes. We don’t expect much exciting happening. We didn’t expect that this month. We don’t expect it for some time.

 

WSN: Is that why the 10-year bond yields in the U.S. dropped from a four-month low, 1.3163? I look at the bloom at the moment. DO you think…

 

TN: This could be. But it’s also, you know, the current Fed chair may not be renominated by Biden. And if Jerome Powell is out, we’re likely to see Lael Brainard come in, who is very much a monetary policy activist. So we could see a really active Fed, not a conservative and extremely dovish Fed if Lael Brainard comes in. So I think that could be part of the reason we’re seeing expectations change in some of the bond markets.

 

PS: Can we shift your attention over to oil? Because as you know, the lack of consensus in OPEC+ and with the failure to negotiate production quotas has really put pressure on oil prices again. Is this conflict going to introduce more short term volatility in oil markets?

 

TN: Sure, yeah. Until there’s agreement between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, I think we are going to see volatility because as the UAE creates a gap in expectations, other players like Russia and other folks can potentially violate the OPEC+ agreement. OPEC doesn’t necessarily have a history of agreeing uniformly very often. OPEC+ agreement has been one where they’ve really abided by it pretty well. And so OPEC is more fractious than it is kind of universal. I think we’re going to see volatility for at least a short time. But I do think there is underlying strength in oil prices. We don’t expect the $100 oil any time this year. Some people are calling for that. But we do see continued build in the strength of oil prices through the end of the year marginal bill.

 

SM: All right. And looking at other indicators, I mean, the US economy is booming, but the US ISM non-manufacturing figure for June came in below market expectations. Could you give us some explanation on what were the reasons for that drop?

 

TN: You know, the main reason really is unemployment or employment. Companies have had to cope with fewer workers as these federal government subsidies have kept workers on the sidelines. Effectively, they’ve paid workers to sit at home more than they’d make in hourly jobs. And so small companies particularly have had to figure out a way to work without additional workers. So now a lot of those workers are coming off of the federal stimulus packages. But a lot of these small and mid-sized sized companies have kind of learned how to cope without as many workers.

 

So they’re not trusting new workers until wages really come down. So it’s really kind of putting an impediment in the path for especially small and mid-sized companies. And that’s where there’s a little bit of doubt in the ISM.

 

WSN: So are we seeing a new economic model then, Tony, where there’s a lot of what we expect in terms of the full and employment numbers will change?

 

TN: It’s a great question, I certainly hope not. Over the last year and a half, we’ve seen immense government intervention in markets globally. Was the stimulus too much? Was it misallocated? We can argue that all day long. But the fact is, we’ve seen immense government stimulus and it takes a long time for stimulus that large to wash through the system.

 

We’re seeing the back side and the down side of stimulus. You know, we’ve seen things like inflation rates rise, you know, all this stuff over second quarter, but that’s really just a year on year number. We’re seeing what’s called base effects there. We’re seeing the same in things like wages and impacts on markets from government activity. So Q2 was a huge anomaly for markets and for government because of what’s happening globally with Covid in Q2 of 2020. As we kind of come back to a relatively normal-ish market, maybe by Q4, you know, we’ll start to see more normal readings across wages across, profits and other things.

 

So there really is a slow build. And as more of that government stimulus gets pulled out of the market or at least slows down, we’ll start to see things normalize. I don’t necessarily think it’s a new model unless the government insists on continuing to intervene and subsidize markets.

 

WSN: All right. Thank you for your time. That was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence, giving us his views on the equity markets and even the fixed income market. But what was really surprising is that he thinks Jerome Powell will be replaced as the Fed chair. I was like, “this is news to me. I thought he was doing an OK job.” And usually I would imagine Joe Biden leading them to do their thing.

 

PS: That’s right. I wouldn’t expect Joe Biden to have places, political perspectives in the appointment of the Fed chair. But I think there are a lot of key decisions that has to be made. And that whole link between the tapering of his asset purchases and adjustment of interest rates, how do you have that delicate balancing act will be very critical.

 

WSN: Janet Yellen and Jerome Powell worked well together and Janet Yellen is his appointment. So I’m a little bit surprised by this news. But other news that I was like kind of focused on was also the fact that he thinks at the energy market upside is limited. So I think all of us as investors have to adjust our expectations in terms of the returns, because if you talk about the rally from March 2020 lows to now, it’s about 90%. And that’s staggering.

 

PS: And Tony is alluding to the fact that the stimulus was too broad, not targeted enough, I think, which basically resulted in a wash of cash, I think, creating a lot of frothy markets. And this is the challenge now.

 

WSN: So how does the bubble kind of burst, right, without creating chaos? Absolutely. You kind of want to deflate it, but not so much.

 

SM: And can I also draw your attention to something else that Tony said that caught my eye, the fact that he thinks oil isn’t going to hit $100 per barrel. We’re actually going to be discussing more on oil later at seven thirty after the bulletin with Sally Yilmaz of Bloomberg Intelligence. So stay tuned for that conversation on what the oil market’s going to look like.

Categories
Podcasts

Inflation, Just Transitory Not Hyper

The Fed just announced that hyperinflation is not happening in the US. Is this a transitory inflation and how long will this last? Where is the market headed now, then? What sectors and industries will be greatly impacted and how will they react to the vulnerabilities? Also, where is oil headed now that it reached $75 per barrel. Lastly, China’s clamp down on Bitcoin — how much impact does it have to crypto’s volatility? All these and more in this quick podcast with our CEO and founder, Tony Nash.

 

This podcast first appeared and originally published at https://www.bfm.my/podcast/morning-run/market-watch/inflation-just-transitory-not-hyper on June 24, 2021.

 

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Show Notes

 

WSN: So to give us an idea of where global markets are headed, we have on the line with us Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Good morning, Tony. Now, the big question, where do you think markets are heading? Which direction are they going to take after Powell’s House testimony that the specter of hyper inflation in the US is unlikely?

 

TN: First, I think hyper inflation in the US isn’t really possible because the US is a global reserve currency. It’s really, really hard to have hyperinflation in the US. Powell knows this. Everyone in the Fed knows that. But I think in terms of the importance of his speech with the House, it wasn’t really all that significant, partly because he came across as unnecessarily hawkish.

 

People have been trying to back off of that ever since his speech. Janet Yellen coming out today bringing things back to a middle ground on Friday. So we think we’ll see upside from here. We’re not going to see major upside. We do expect things to get a bit rocky later in the third quarter. But short of dump trucks of cash out on every corner or a major new breakout of Covid, I think we are on a gentle glide path for the next couple of months.

 

PS: So, Tony, can you help us distinguish the difference between temporary transitionary inflation and what is permanent inflation? Because Janet Yellen is in that transitionary stage. But at what point does it become permanent, in your view? Are the triggers there?

 

TN: Well, what’s misleading a lot of people today is we have what economists call these base effects. Last year, you saw really prices falling, right? You saw economic decline. So when you’re looking at prices today, people are giving you a price in year on year percentage terms. So things are up 30% year on year. Things are up 50% year on year. Actually, when you compare them to 2019 prices, depending on the asset, of course, plywood is different, these sorts of things.

 

But things are not really all that inflated given where they were in 2019, which was the last normal year that we had. And then when you look at the supply chain issues we’ve had, you do have some uptick in that. But some of this perceived inflation really is mostly a base effect more than anything else. And then when you layer the supply chain issues on top of that, then it’s really created a mess.

 

SM: All right. I hear you, Tony. That’s fair enough. However, rising prices in the US seem to be feeding into pockets of the real economy. Which sectors or areas do you see as most vulnerable to this?

 

TN: Housing, we’ve started to see people put off housing decisions as a result of this. It’s hitting food prices in a big way, especially protein. So pork, beef, chicken, these sorts of things. But we’re seeing corn, soybean and other crop prices rise pretty dramatically as well. Wheat prices are up pretty huge over the past week or so. And then automobiles, when you drive by a car lot, an automobile lot here, they’re really only half full because automakers have had to slow down for a number of reasons, whether it’s the metals prices or whether it’s the chip shortages, the auto manufacturers have had to slow down. So it’s really hit those three sectors very hard.

 

SM: These companies who are in these sectors, have they been able to actually pass on the rising cost to consumers?

 

TN: Some they have. But we’ve seen, some food companies or other folks pass them on in housing. Definitely, it’s been passed on directly and in automobiles, yes, but I think it’s a bigger supply chain issue than it is actually inflation issues. So they’ll pass on those costs in one certain form. But I don’t know that they’ll be able to get 100%  or recuperate 100% of those costs.

 

SM: So are we potentially seeing some margin squeeze from these companies who are impacted in the coming quarters when we look at the earnings?

 

TN: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think for companies who are complaining about the costs, but if they don’t see their margins squeezed, then we’ll know this is definitely temporary. But talking to almost any manufacturer here from polypropylene or polypropylene to ordering, industrial metals to wheat or something, everyone is feeling the pinch. But again, it’s as much access to supply as it is the cost of supply.

 

PS: So, Tony, you go upstream from propylene to actually Brent crude, and I think that’s hit $75 highest in 2 years. OPEC is meeting next week to decide whether they’re going to increase production. What’s your take?

 

TN: The U.S. crude prices are up a bit based on the drawdowns from storage in the U.S. and that’s on economic activity. States are finally kind of the states that had been holding back or finally opening up fully, which is good news for consumption. But with this Delta variant, there’s a real risk. It’s possible that Europe starts to lock down again as possibly parts of Asia start to lock down. Of course, we’ll have certain states in the U.S. that will probably move toward lock down again as well if it starts to impact.

 

So that’s a real risk on the consumption side. But for the OPEC+ group, they’re sitting on about 5.8 or 6 million barrels a day of production that they had before Covid. So they decided to cut this production so that prices wouldn’t go too negative or too far down. So they have that capacity that they can bring back online any time. If they discuss that next week, I don’t think OPEC wants to see oil prices because of the resentment it creates and the damage it does to consumers.

 

So I think there’ll be a lot of pressure on OPEC members to open up supply and bring prices down just a little bit. It’s not as if we need to see prices down in the 40s again, of course. But I think there’s a lot of fear that we’re going to see $80, $90, $100 oil and it is giving people a lot of reason for concern.

 

SM: All right. Well, we’ll be watching that meeting next week, Tony. And in a little bit of time that we have, one last quick question. What are you making about the volatility in Bitcoin that’s been happening this week? How much of it can be attributed to China’s crypto clampdown?

 

TN: Oh, sure. A lot of it can. About 70% of crypto mining globally happens in China. So as China clamps down, it really brings down the demand for Bitcoin and it brings down a lot of the pressure on the market. So it’s a little bit of regulatory and tax threat in the West, but it’s mostly the supply in China. And so a lot of that’s on the back of electrical grid pressures. So once the summer passes, the enforcement of that will likely lighten up and we’ll likely see more pressure on bitcoin, upward pressure on crypto markets.

 

SM: All right. Thank you for your time. That was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence, giving us his views on markets. And I think what was interesting is that we can potentially see some companies being impacted by a margin squeeze because prices of certain goods, like you mentioned, meat in particular, lumber, corn or even, you know, all these downstream materials or byproducts of oil have gone up incredibly. And not all this price increase can be passed on to consumers because face it, the economy is just beginning to recover.

 

PS: Yeah, you know, because the these shubha transition. Right. Is it an issue of demand and demand is very high. Right. So maybe that when you can pass the price, but if it’s things like supply chain logistics as a result of, you know, breakages and, you know, it’s just all screwed up because of covid. Yeah, I think that’s very hard to pass on to the consumer. And that’s where the margin squeeze is going to take place.

 

SM: That’s right. And Tony mentioned automobiles as one of the areas where you’re going to see price rises. And I listen to this really fascinating podcast not too long ago on Planet Money, where they were talking about the used car sector. And the fact is that the they don’t have enough used cars to fill up the lots right now. So it really has that trickle down effect when you can’t, you know, produce more cars. Yeah, the second hand market will also suffer.

 

WSN: Apparently, Malaysia, our second hand market has also seen an uptick because of covid-19. There’s a reluctance for people to take public transport. So in the past, maybe you were you know, you hadn’t decided whether you want to buy a car, but now you’re kind of in that zone where you’re like, I need I need it because, you know, public transport, I’m not comfortable. Maybe this, you know, you think at the end of the day, why don’t I just get it rather sooner rather than later?

 

Plus, actually, interest rates are rather low. It’s only whether the question of whether you still have a job or whether how you feel in terms of sentiment.

 

PS: It’s fascinating because we talk about rising car prices and it’s also a lift to many things, lithium, SEMICON chips and all that. But on the flip side, we also talk about high oil prices coming through at the pump.

 

WSN: So we’re not so much for us because we are still subsidizing you run 95 Batla.

 

PS: Yeah, some of it’s going to be some of us. Pomerol 97.

 

SM: OK, I’m not one of those there.

 

PS: Well I do admit I do because my Volvo requires it. OK, in any case that is a challenge. I think in the long term it will hit the paycheck. Yeah. And the pocket later.

 

WSN: Well up next, we’ll be taking a look at the papers and the pottle. Stay tuned for that BFM eighty nine point nine.

 

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QuickHit

Crude oil: New super cycle or continued price moderation? (Part 2)

This is the second part of the crude oil discussion with energy markets veteran Vandana Hari. Tony Nash asked if the political tensions in the Middle East will affect oil prices in this environment, and how soon can we see the effect in oil prices if the Iran agreement is made? She also discussed her views on the Texas shale industry and when can we see a bounce back, or if we’ll ever see one.

 

The first part of this discussion can be found here.

 

Vandana Hari is based in Singapore. She runs Vanda Insights and have been looking at the oil markets for about 25 years now. She launched Vanda Insights about five years ago. The company provides timely, credible, and succinct global oil markets, macro analysis, mostly through published reports.

 

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This QuickHit episode was recorded on May 19, 2021.

 

The views and opinions expressed in this Crude oil: New super cycle or continued price moderation? QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

 

Show Notes

 

VH: And then, of course, we have Iranian oil and we could talk about that separately. So there’s plenty of supply.

 

TN: Let’s move there. So let’s talk a little bit about the Middle East with. First of all, with the political risk around Israel Palestine. Is that really a factor? Does that really impact oil prices the way it would have maybe 20, 30 years ago?

 

VH: OK, so with regard to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that we’ve seen flare up in recent days, the short answer is no. Oil, it’s not even a blip on the radar of the oil complex. Now, obviously that’s because those two countries are neither major producers or consumers of oil. It is also not affecting shipping, the kind of fear that was in the markets, for instance, when ships were attacked in the Strait of Hormuz or the Red Sea.

 

But having said that, generally the oil market is keeping an eye on how that region, the tensions have been escalating. The Iranian and Arab tensions have been escalating. We have seen more attacks over the past few months. It seems to have died down a little bit recently, but more attacks from by the Houthi rebels just managing to miss white facilities in Saudi Arabia. So, yes, it is an area of concern. But somehow the oil market, maybe because there is enough oil available against demand, but the oil market has sort of almost gotten into this pattern of, that’s a knee jerk reaction. Every time, it looks like a supply might be affected from that region. But the oil complex has just been generally reluctant to price in on a sustained basis of geopolitical fear premium.

 

TN: Yeah, I can see that. That’s very evident. With the JCPOA, with the Iran agreement, how much of a factor would that be to supplies and over what timeframe would it be a factor? Would it be an immediate factor? Would it be something in six months time from if an agreement is made?

 

VH: We know the indirect talks that have been going on between the US and Iranians the past few weeks, and then there’s been a bit of confusing signals as well in terms of news emanating earlier this week. We had a Russian diplomat say that, oh, it’s on the verge of a breakthrough and then retracted so it doesn’t help the oil market of anybody as opposed to have that adding to the confusion. The oil market has made its calculations.

 

First of all, Iranian oil production as well as exports have been edging up. That’s a fact. Now, obviously, there’s no clearly transparent data, but there’s plenty of ship tracking companies, all of which have very clear evidence that there’s more oil going into China.

 

So to some extent, you could argue that crude prices today have factored in a little bit of extra Iranian oil coming back into the market. Just to remind our viewers that it never went down to zero. There was always Iranian in oil flowing into and we’ll not go into the details of that. But basically it’s sort of bypassing the US sanctions. So the question now is how much more Iranian oil can come into the market and when it could come into the market?

 

And I would add a third point to that is that what will OPEC+ do to that if it ends up pressuring prices? So how much more oil could come into the market? An estimated 1.2 million barrels per day additional oil could come if the sanctions are removed. When it could come back into the market? I’m no more privy to what’s going on behind closed doors in the discussions than the next person. But my personal feeling from reading what’s coming out of these talks is that it’s a very complex set of issues.

 

There’s a lot of politics going on when people come out and say, oh, we’ve made progress and so on. But it’s a complex web. It’s multilayered. I personally don’t expect sanctions to be removed before next month’s Iranian elections. So sometime this year, yes. But not right away.

 

And here’s the point I would make as well, is that I don’t think OPEC-non OPEC alliance will sit on their hands and see, especially if crude starts spiraling downwards with the Iranian oil more than Iranian oil coming back into the market. I think they will make adjustments accordingly. If the market can absorb it without a big hit to oil prices, well then good, you know, which is what was the case with Libya last year. But if it can’t, I think they’ll just redistribute that sort of cut back a little bit more or taper less basically. So either way, I don’t see that putting a huge downward pressure on crude.

 

TN: I’m in Texas and so we haven’t really seen a lot of new capacity come online with the with the Texas plays over the past few months as prices have risen. So what will it take for Texas to kind of install new rigs or re-open rigs and get things moving here? What are you looking for and what do you think the magic number is? I mean, if it hasn’t been hit already? What do you think needs to happen for Texas to kind of reopen some of these fields?

 

VH: Yes, we saw oil rigs across the US, which is a very crucial measurement of the activity in the shale patch, especially. We saw that number crash last year. And I look at the fracturing fleet count as well, which tells you exactly how much oil is being drilled out of those wells. But not just how many wells are being drilled. So both of those have been creeping up from from the crash of last year. I think since about August last year, they they have been moving up. But if you compare year on year still, that the total rig count is just half of the levels before Covid last year. Overall, US oil production and shale is the lion’s share of it has dropped from about nearly 13 million barrels per day to about 11. Two million barrels per day of capacity has basically disappeared from the shale patch.

 

And for OPEC, as well as for the oil market, I think it’s a key area to keep an eye on because we have seen in the previous boom and bust cycles and oil price up and down cycles, that shale was very quick to respond to oil price recovery. I think the story is very, very different this time. There’s a few influencing key factors, which are all pulling in the same direction.

 

So first of all, on a very sort of global level, we know that generally, funding is drying up in fossil fuels. OK, so that’s a baseline. That’s affecting conventional fuel. It’s affecting shale equally. The second is that we see and this has been an ongoing trend over the past few years, more and more majors have made inroads into majors are now independent players still produce the majority of the tight oil from the US shale. But the majors have become quite significant players as well. And almost every major that you tune into is saying that we are going to be very, very cautious in… We’d rather return money. We’d rather pay down debt, cash discipline, essentially. We would rather return money to our shareholders than invest in just growth at any cost. That’s happening.

 

When it comes to independence. I think they’re going their own ways, basically. You can’t say all independents have the same philosophy. But again, when I listen to the major independent players, they pretty much are also into cost discipline strategy. If you aren’t, are going to just have a tough time, far tougher time than than the previous down cycles in getting funding. So we generally see that funding for the shale sector is also starting to dry up.

 

I suppose banks and lenders and shareholders probably just seen enough of that, how sales fortunes go up and down. If you’re a long term investor, it’s not really an area of stability. So all of these put together to lead me to conclude that the EIA thinks shale production will creep up a little bit this year. But of course, compared with 2019, they’ll still remain low. It’s predicting quite a big bounce back in ’22. But I’m not that sure about it. I have a feeling that it’s probably going to sort of plateau from here on.

 

TN: OK. Really interesting. So it sounds like kind of that marginal barrel that would come from shale to be honest, isn’t really that necessary right now given the cost that it would take to reopen the rig. Is that fair to say?

 

VH: Yeah. And then you have to remember that the OPEC is sitting on that marginal barrel of supply as well. And that has to come back into the market. And you have to see prices supported, let’s say WTI, well above sixty dollars. And then ask yourself that have any of these, the three conditions that I outlined earlier changed substantially enough for shale to go into a boom again? So I think the answer is pretty clear.

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QuickHit

Crude oil: New super cycle or continued price moderation? (Part 1)

Energy markets expert Vandana Hari is back on QuickHit to talk about crude oil. Brent is nearly at the $70 psychological mark and is also a 2-year high. However, demand has not picked up to the pre-Covid levels. Vandana explained what happened here and what to look forward to in the coming year. Also, is crude experiencing supply chain bottlenecks like in lumber and other commodities and how oil demand will pick up around the world?

 

Vandana Hari is based in Singapore. She runs Vanda Insights and have been looking at the oil markets for about 25 years now. The majority of those were with Platts. She launched Vanda Insights about five years ago. The company provides timely, credible, and succinct global oil markets, macro analysis, mostly through published reports. They are also available for ad hoc consultations and research papers.

 

💌 Subscribe to CI Newsletter and gain AI-driven intelligence.

📺 Subscribe to our Youtube Channel.

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This QuickHit episode was recorded on May 19, 2021.

 

The views and opinions expressed in this Crude oil: New super cycle or continued price moderation? QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

 

Show Notes

 

TN: I want to talk about crude oil, because if we looked a year ago and we saw where crude oil prices were a year ago because of the Covid shock and we look at where crude is today, it’s something like two-year highs or something like that today. And we still have kind of five or six million barrels, we’re consuming about five or six million barrels less per day than we were pre-Covid. Is that about right?

 

VH: Yeah, absolutely. So we have had a Brent flood with the $70 per barrel psychological mark, it has not been able to vault it in terms of, you know, in the oil markets, we tend to look at go-buy settlements. So we’re talking about ICE Brent Futures failing to settle above 70 dollars a barrel? But it has settled a couple of times so far this year, just below, which was two-year highs.

 

And the man on the street, as you quite rightly point out, does end up wondering. And I’m sure people at the pump in the US looking at three dollars a gallon prices that hang on like the global demand is yet to return anywhere close to pre Covid. So why are prices going to two-year highs?

 

So two fundamental reasons. If you talk about supply and demand in the oil markets, the first one is the OPEC – Non OPEC Alliance is still holding back a substantial amounts of oil from the markets. If you hark back to last year when they came together in this unprecedented cutback, almost 10 million barrels of oil per day, cumulative within that group, they said they’re going to leave it in the ground because of the demand destruction.

 

Now, starting January this year, they have begun to so-called “taper.” Yes, people borrowed that as well in the oil market. All over the place. Yeah. So they’re tapering. But they’re doing it very, very cautiously.

 

So where do we stand now? They are still holding back almost six and a half million barrels per day. So basically two thirds of the oil that they took out of the market last year is still, they’re still keeping it under the ground. So that’s one main reason.

 

The second one is a bit, of course, demand has been picking up as countries and globally, if you look at it, I mean, we can talk about individual countries, but globally, you know, the world is starting to cautiously emerge out of Covid-related restrictions.

 

Economies are doing better. So oil consumption is moving up. But but some of, it’s not entirely that. I would say some of the the buoyancy in crude of late, and especially when it was, you know, Brent was a two-year highs, is because of a forward looking demand optimism. And when it comes to that, I think it’s very, very closely connected or I would say almost entirely focused on the reopening of the U.S. economy.

 

TN: OK, so. So this is a forward looking optimism, is it? I know into other areas, like, for example, lumber, which has been there’s been a lot of buzz about lumber inflation is because of the sawmills and with other, say, commodities, there have been processing issues and with, you know, meat and these sorts of things that have been kind of processing issues and bottlenecks in the supply chain. But with crude oil to petrol, it’s not, it’s not the same. Refineries are doing just fine. Is that, is that fair to say?

 

VH: That’s a very good point, Tony, to to just kind of unpick a little bit. Because what happens is when you hear talk of super cycles, commodities, bull run, and then, of course, we have a lot of indexes and people trade those indexes, commodity index, we tend to lump together, you know, commodities all the way from copper and tin, lumber and corn all the way to crude oil and gasoline and gas oil and so on.

 

But, you know, here’s what. You know. We could spend hours talking about this. But, but just very quickly to dissect it, I would say look at it in terms of you have commodities. And I would sort of lump metals and to some extent agricultural commodities in this one Group A and Group B.

 

So as I mentioned earlier, Group B, which is which is oil. Well, crude oil and refined products, to a large extent, the prices are being propped up by OPEC, plus keeping supply locked out of the markets. It’s very different from, as you mentioned, what’s happening in metals and ags and these kind of commodities where it just can’t be helped. So there’s supply chain issues, this production issues all the way from from Chile, where copper production all the way to even here in Malaysia, you know, palm oil, because workers are unable to return fully. Or in terms of even the the packaging, the storage and the delivery of it. So I think there’s a major difference there.

 

Now, the commonality here is, of course, all of these are seeing demand rebound. You know, that I agree as a commonality. Demand is rebounding. But I think it’s very important to remember. And why is it why is this distinction important is that you could argue that, well, if demand continues to sort of go gangbusters in terms of copper, tin, lumber, it will, for the foreseeable future, meet against supply constriction. So you cannot.

 

So accordingly, you can assess what might be the prices of these commodities going forward. They may remain elevated, but it would be wrong, I think, to sort of draw a parallel between that and oil, because in oil, I do believe OPEC non-OPEC are waiting. In fact, I don’t think they can hold their horses any longer, waiting to start putting that oil back into the market. So, you know, keep that distinction in mind.

 

TN: So there’s an enthusiasm there. So let’s say we do see demand kind of come back gradually, say, in the U.S., a little bit slower in, say, Europe. But China is moving along well and say Southeast Asia, east Asia is coming along well. The supply from the OPEC countries will come on accordingly. Is that fair to say?

 

VH: Absolutely. And when you talk about demand, again, I think there’s a sort of a bias in the crude futures markets, which tend to be the leading the direction for the oil complex in general, including the Fiscal markets, is that there’s definitely a bias to looking towards what’s hot right now, at least looking towards what’s happening in the US and getting carried away a little bit. Because when you look at the US, it’s a completely positive picture, right?

 

You base that, you see things around, you see how people are just kind of moving away. You’re removing mask mandates, people are traveling. And, of course, we’re getting a lot of data as well. The footfall in your airports. The other thing about the US is you have good data, right. Daily, weekly data. So that continues to prop up the market. But if you just cast your eye, take a few steps back, look at the globe as a whole. And, you know, sitting here in Asia, I can shed some light about what’s happening here.

 

No country is opening its borders in Asia, OK? People are, for leisure. If people are even not even able to travel to meet their family, you know, unless it’s in times of emergency, unfortunately. So nobody’s traveling. The borders are sealed very, very tight.

 

There is an air bubble, travel bubble between New Zealand and Australia. But, you know, nobody’s bothering to even check what that’s doing to jet demand. What do you think it will imagine? You imagine it will do.

 

And then you have Europe in between, which is, yes, again, it is reopening very cautiously, though. We’ve had the UK Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, cautioning that the travel plans for the Brits might be in disarray because of this so-called Indian variant. I don’t like to use that term, but this virus more transmissible virus variant. So it’s a very patchy recovery. It’s a very mixed picture, which is why I’m not that bullish about global oil demand rebound as a whole. You know, at least the so-called summer boom that people are talking about.

 

TN: Do you do you see this kind of trading in a range for the next, say, three or four or five months or something? Demand come, supply come, demand come, supply comes something like that.

 

So there’s not too much of a shortfall for market needs as kind of opening up accelerates?

 

VH: Very much so. I think, first of all, unfortunately, I mean, as individuals, of course, we like to be positive and optimistic. But with an analyst hat on, we need to look at data. We need to use logic. We need to overlay that with our experience of this pandemic, the past one and a half years.

 

Somehow, we’ve had a few false dawns, unfortunately, during this pandemic. We’ve seen that right from the start. When you remember the first summer, 2020 summer, some people said, oh, the heat and all that, the virus will just die away.

 

So, again, I think we need to be very, very cautious. I do think, unfortunately, that this variance and as you and I were discussing off air earlier, this is the nature of the virus. So I think there’s going to be a lot of stop, start, stop, start. The other thing I see happening is that it’s almost like, I imagine the virus sort of it’s moving around. And even if you look at India now, it’s just gone down in the worst hit states of Maharashtra and Delhi. But now it’s sort of moved into the rural area.

 

So I think sort of, unfortunately, is going to happen globally as well. The other important thing to keep in mind is, is vaccinations, of course, is very, very uneven. You know, the ratio of vaccinated people in each country so far, the pace at which the vaccinations are going and, you know, not to mention the countries, the poorer, the lower income countries.

 

So we’re probably going to see, you know, maybe a bit of start. Stop. Definitely. I don’t think we’re going to see national boundaries opening up to travel any time soon. And then exactly as you pointed out, we have this OPEC oil and then, of course, we have Iranian oil and we can talk about that separately. So there’s plenty of supply.

 

TN: So let’s talk a little bit about, let’s talk a little bit about the Middle East with, you know, first of all, with political risk around Israel Palestine. Is that really a factor? Does that, does that really impact oil prices the way it would have maybe 20, 30 years ago?

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QuickHit

Future of the US Dollar: Weaker or Stronger?

Commodities expert Tracy Shuchart graced our QuickHit this week with interesting and fresh insights about USD, CNY, oil, and metals. Will USD continue on the uptrend with Yellen on board? What is the near-term direction of CNY? Will metals like copper, aluminum, etc. continue to rise, or will they correct? Will crude continue the rally or is it time for a pause? Watch as Tracy explains her analysis on the markets in the latest QuickHit episode.

 

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📺 Subscribe to our Youtube Channel.

📊 Forward-looking companies become more profitable with Complete Intelligence. The only fully automated and globally integrated AI platform for smarter cost and revenue planning. Book a demo here.

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This QuickHit episode was recorded on March 12, 2021.

The views and opinions expressed in this How robust is the global financial system in the wake of Covid? QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

 

Show Notes

 

TN: I’ve been focused for the past few weeks on the Dollar and Chinese Yuan and on industrial metals. Can you talk to me a little bit about your view on the Dollar? What’s happening with the Treasury and Fed and some of their views of the Dollar and how is that spreading out to markets?

 

TS: Right now, we have a little bit of mixed messaging, right? So, we have the Fed that wants a weaker Dollar. But then, we have Yellen who’s come in and she wants a strong Dollar policy. So, I think that markets are confused right now. Do we want a weaker Dollar or do we want a stronger Dollar? And so, we’re seeing a lot of volatility in the markets because of that sentiment.

 

TN: So who do you think’s gonna win?

 

TS: I think that Yellen’s going to win. I think we’re probably going to get a little bit of a stronger Dollar. I don’t think we’re going to see a hundred anytime soon again. We’ve seen stronger Dollar when she was at the Fed. She’s come in right now and said that she wants a stronger Dollar. We would probably have at least a little bit more elevated than the low that we just had, like 89.

 

TN: I think things are so stretched right now that even a slightly marginally stronger Dollar, let’s say to 95 or something like that would really impact markets in a big way.

 

I’ve been watching CNY. I watch it really closely and, you know, we bottomed out, or let’s say it appreciated a lot over the last six months. It feels like we bottomed out and it’s weakening again. What does that mean to you? What is the impact of that?

 

TS: The impact obviously will have a lot to do with manufacturing, with exports, and things of that nature. So if their currency starts depreciating, and they’re going to export that deflation to the rest of the world, it’s just starting to bounce over the last week or so. Unless we have another trade war, I don’t think we’re probably gonna see like seven, seven plus. I remember last time we were talking about it, we were talking about it’s going to be 7.20 and you nailed that. It’s definitely something to keep an eye on obviously, because they’re such a big purchaser and because they’re such a big exporter.

 

TN: We’re expecting 6.6 this month, and continue to weaken, but not dramatically. We’re expecting a pretty managed weakening of CNY barring some event.

This China discussion is from our Telegram Channel. Join us here: https://t.me/completeintelligence

 

This chart was generated using the CI Futures app. For more information about it, go to https://www.completeintel.com/ci-futures/

What I’ve been observing as we’ve had a very strong CNY over the past six months is hoarding of industrial metals and we’ve seen that in things like the copper price. Have you seen that yourself? And with a weaker CNY, what does that do to some of those industrial metals prices in terms of magnitude, not necessarily specific levels, but what do you think that does to industrial metals prices?

 

TS: We’ve been seeing that across all industrial metals, right. It hasn’t just been copper. It’s been iron ore. It’s been aluminum. It’s been nickel. We’ve seen that across all of those. China likes to hoard. So when everything was very cheap like last summer, when everything kind of bottomed out, they started purchasing a lot. Then we also had problems with supply because of Covid. So prices really accelerated and then suddenly we just had China’s currency pretty much strengthened. We’ll probably see a pullback in those prices. It’ll be partly because of their currency. If they allow that to depreciate a little bit. And then also, as extended supply comes back on the market.

 

But it’s even getting to the point now where if you look at oil, oil prices are getting really high too. We’ll likely see China scale back on purchases, probably a little bit going forward just because prices are so high. Or we will see them, which we’re seeing now, is buy more from Iran, because they need the money. They get it at a great discount. It’s cheap. If they start buying more from Iran, that takes it away from Saudi Arabia and Russia, who are the two largest oil producers.

 

TN: When I look at Chinese consumption, at least over the past 15 months, there’s been almost an adverse relationship of CNY to USD and say industrial metals prices. It looks like a mirror. Crude oil doesn’t look that way. It’s really interesting how the crude price in CNY there really isn’t that type of relationship.

 

One would expect that if CNY devalues, they’ll necessarily cut back on purchases. I would argue and I could be wrong here, that it’s not necessarily the currency that would cause them to cut back on purchases. They’ve hoarded and stored so much that they don’t necessarily need to keep purchasing what they have been. Is that fair to say?

 

TS: They still like to hoard a lot. Between January and February, they were still up 6% year over year, where January was very high, February was lower because they have holiday during February. Oil, that is different. It’s not really related so much to their currency because you have outside factors such as OPEC, which has really taken eight percent off the market and they’ve held that over again for another month. And the fundamentals are improving with oil. I’ve been seeing a lot of strength in the market over the last eight months.

 

US is the world’s largest consumer. Whereas you look at something like industrial metals, they are the world’s largest consumer. When we were talking about crude oil, because that’s spread out so much, they don’t really have that much pull on the market per se that they would in metals markets.

 

TS: And I’ll remind you. I’m sure you remember this. When we spoke in Q2 of 2020, you said it would be Q2 of ’21 before we even started to return to normal consumption patterns for crude and downstream products. I think you hit that spot on. And it’s pretty amazing to see. I had hoped that it would return sooner, but of course it didn’t.

Categories
Podcasts

Rotating Permanently into Cyclicals

In this Morning Run BFM episode, Tony Nash shares his views where equities are heading now that the 2020 Election has concluded. Will the new administration reverse China policies by Trump? Also, what is the implication to the world exports with a weaker USD and stronger CNY? Lastly on oil: what is its future? Will the rally continue? Does it have enough support?

 

This podcast first appeared and originally published at https://www.bfm.my/podcast/morning-run/market-watch/rotating-permanently-into-cyclicals on January 7, 2021.

 

❗️ Check out more of our insights in featured in the CI Newsletter and QuickHit interviews with experts.

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BFM Description

 

With a blue wave in Georgia, what does this mean for the US economy and equity market? Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence, tells us that the rotational play is now here to stay while giving us his view on oil prices.

 

Produced by: Mike Gong

 

Presented by: Lyn Mak, Wong Shou Ning

 

 

Show Notes

 

WSN: Joining us on the line for his take on where markets are headed is Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Equity and currency markets were waiting for the Georgia election results, which have just come out. Given that outcome, where the Democrats have won, where do you see U.S. equities heading?

 

TN: We don’t see major upside for U.S. equities without significant short-term intervention by the Fed or by some stimulus or infrastructure package. Given where Congress is, I’m not sure that there would be the ability to get much through Congress so it would have to come from the Fed. It’s possible, but we see more the hard assets like gold and commodities. And then you see crypto currencies rising pretty fast as well. But the risk really with equities is to the downside more than to the upside.

 

WSN: But if we just look at last night’s flows, there was some rotation into cyclicals like banks and small caps with less fund flow into big tech, perhaps over concerns of increased litigation action against them. Do you think this will change into a more long-term kind of rotation?

 

TN: We’ve expected that for some time. That rotation is long overdue. But the Fed have enabled tech and crypto to have a longer run. That rotation has been put off a bit. So if now is the time, great. We would definitely welcome it. We’re just overexposed in certain sectors.

 

WSN: And meanwhile, last night, US 10-year treasuries top two percent. What does that tell us?

 

TN: The U.S. is having a harder time raising money? They need to pay a little bit more to get money. I don’t necessarily think it’s a harbinger of inflation. Although it’s possible with a weaker dollar. I would say higher import prices. Chinese yuan on the run, strengthening. You may have higher import prices, but people have been warning about inflation for years now and we just have not seen it register. I think it just means that that the U.S. Treasury has to pay more to raise money.

 

WSN: And with Biden coming in on January 20th as the next US president, I would like to see a reversal of Trump’s more adversarial policies with China?

 

TN: Biden will be very accommodating to China. I think you’ll see different parts of the House and the Senate not be happy about it. But he’ll be absolutely extremely accommodating. More accommodating than Obama was.

 

WSN: What impact do you think that might have on the U.S. economy? Because in the past there was some shift into more U.S. based manufacturing. Will that then reverse?

 

TN: With the USMCA, the NAFTA number two agreement, I think there’s more incentive for companies to have facilities in the NAFTA zone. China obviously is more expensive and with an appreciating CNY, that makes it more difficult to invest while you get less for your money in China. China is becoming an increasingly hard sell. That has been the case since 2017, 2018. It’s not going to turn back. Until there is a reciprocal and enforceable investment agreement in place with China, I think China is where it is. I don’t think you would see a mad rush of direct investment going to China.

 

WSN: What are your views in terms of where the U.S. dollar is hitting? Because you just mentioned that the Yen is likely to appreciate?

 

TN: It already has. The Chinese officials are becoming a little bit nervous about how strong CNY has become because it’ll put a real damper on their their ability to export. You have the Euro versus CNY weakening. You have the Dollar versus CNY weakening. It’s coming to a point where it could be somewhat problematic for China. So they will push to weaken their currency, maybe not immediately, but say in first quarter. As you see more stability, post Brexit with the new normal Europe. As you see more stability in the US with the new administration, I think you’ll see a bit of relative strengthening of those two currencies versus CNY.

 

WSN: And shifting our attention to one of the commodities: oil. Yesterday, Saudi Arabia’s cutting oil output while Russia is increasing theirs. What’s the rationale for this? And OPEC members then divide it on production quotas?

 

TN: OPEC members may verbally agree to things. Whether or not they comply with that has been a burden for OPEC for decades. So what they all want is more volume export and the prices is the real issue.

 

So I think there’s an intention to present mixed messages so that there’s uncertainty in the market so that we see Brent price that’s sustainably above 50 dollars. That is is good for OPEC. That’s good for some of the producers like Malaysia and Texas where I live. I think consumers, we don’t necessarily to expect to see a sustainably strong oil price because we don’t necessarily expect to see a dramatic recovery in 2021. But we don’t expect to see a dramatic recovery that would spike oil prices up to 70, 80 dollars.

 

WSN: Do you expect oil prices to be where it is, which is currently around 50 U.S. dollars per barrel for WTI?

 

TN: For six plus months, we’ve expected a spike in January. And we’ve been telling people since July, August that we would see a spike in oil prices in January. And this is exactly what our artificial intelligence platform has told us for quite a long time. So we’re seeing what we’ve expected. We’ve also expected a fall going into February. Like I said, this is great. This is very much in line with what we thought would happen. But we expect there to be some downside to this and downward pressure within the next 30 to 60 days.

 

WSN: All right. Thank you for your time. That was Tony Nesh, CEO of Complete Intelligence, giving us his views on where markets are heading. And it seems like it’s not surprising that there’s a bit of a market correction or at least a market rotational flow out of tech, which valuations have kind of hit all time high and some rotation into the cyclicals like banks and small caps. But I think his views on oil are pretty interesting that it’s you know, we are going to see maybe a bit of downside from here.

 

What will he take? Reasoning?

 

LM: I think his comments about particularly what we can expect out of a Biden administration were quite interesting because commentators now kind of are kind of split over how they believe Joe Biden will kind of stack up compared to Barack Obama once he is inaugurated as president of the U.S. And the idea of Joe Biden being more accommodating than Obama, particularly with Trump also still continuing his crackdowns on China. It’s almost enough to give you whiplash, isn’t it? Because once January 20 is rolls around, how much of Trump’s measures will be rolled back?

 

I mean, only recently he’s just signed an executive order as well, banning several Chinese payment apps over security concerns. So this affects eight payment apps and it’s supposed to take an IT take effect in 45 days after Trump has left office.

 

WSN: Yeah, and what’s interesting is these eight p.m. apps are very well known to include the likes of ADP, Tencent, Cucu and even WeChat P now in the executive order, said that these apps captures swaths of information, including sensitive, personally identifiable information and private information. Now, how much of this an impact will have is unclear, since it’s understood that the usage of these apps outside of China remains limited. For example, the ALP has roughly one billion users, but they are mostly in China.

 

However, it does have deals with merchants in the U.S. such as Walgreens, and claims to work with more than two hundred and fifty overseas partners. Now, separately, the New York Stock Exchange has made another U-turn on its earlier U-turn to delist three Chinese telecom companies, which be. Going round and round and round, yeah, it’s like a mini roundabout now, so and these three companies are China Mobile, China Telecom and China Unicom.

 

LM: So the NYSE first announced that it would delist the companies on New Year’s Eve before changing course four days later. And the delisting complies with Trump’s executive order banning investment in Chinese companies with purported ties to the military. So the exchange said its latest decision is based on new specific guidance received on Tuesday provided by the Treasury Department. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin reportedly called the NYSE president, Stacie Cunningham, to voice his displeasure with the decision to allow these three companies to remain on the big board.

 

WSN: Well, I think this story will just get the plot will get thicker and thicker, and whether the roundabout will get bigger and bigger, we’ll just have to find out. But up next, we ask the question, what can you do to attract more foreign direct investment for us? Ross, the senior economist with Mark, will be joining us for that discussion. Stay tuned for that BFM eighty nine point nine.

 

Categories
QuickHit Visual (Videos)

QuickHit: There are a quarter billion barrels of oil headed to China right now

Co-Founder of TankerTrackers.com Samir Madani joins us for this week’s QuickHit episode where he talked about where the oil is coming and going, explained the volatility around oil and VLCCs, and if China has the capacity to store the quarter billion barrels of oil that they are buying on the cheap.

 

TankerTrackers.com is a service that Sam started with a couple of friends from four years ago. They track tankers that carry crude oil and gas condensates, to give the moms and pops of this world a heads up on what’s happening in the oil flow situation. The company aims to deviate from the black-and-white narrative in mass media to show the world the grey area that oil is not always the cause of war.

 

Follow Tony on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TonyNashNerd

Follow Sam on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Samir_Madani

Check out the CI Futures platform to forecast currencies, commodities, and equity indices: https://www.completeintel.com/ci-futures/

 

***This QuickHit episode was recorded on September 2, 2020.

Last week’s QuickHit was with political economic consultant Albert Marko where he explained about this “perceived recovery” and the artificial market.

 

The views and opinions expressed in this QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

 

Show Notes

 

TN: Crude oil and trade have a lot to do with economic health globally. We’ve just gone through COVID. We’ve gone through a lot of government-mandated closures and there’s been quite a lot of discussion about the rate at which economies are coming back. You see this every day, right? You see the crude trade, you see international trade. How do things look from your perspective?

 

SM: What we’ve noticed is that since January to now, exports have (except the USA) fell from 19 million barrels a day in exports to around 14 million barrels a day. 4.5 million barrels a day in drop between January and now. That’s a lot. That’s 120 million barrels a month, which is not shipped out now.

 

We see immense amount of barrels heading over to China because they are buying on the cheap. We saw around a quarter billion barrels of oil headed towards China right now. And of that quarter billion, half of it is already in their Anchorage area. They have over 100 million barrels that are just floating and waiting to get on to shore.

 

The reason for this is because of the flooding in China, which slows down consumption of gasoline. But it picks up consumption of diesel for the heavy machines that are going to move on the land and so on.

 

Refinery runs worldwide right now are much lower than the year on year because of the fact that gasoline consumption is down.

 

What I’m waiting for in the EIA report is not how much inventory has been removed or added, but the refinery runs. How much gasoline is being created out of the food processing? So I’m waiting for a moving average because you shouldn’t rely on the weekly numbers. You should look for the moving average. Wait for that number to cross 15 million barrels per day. That’s my threshold to say that the U.S. economy and the whole thing is coming back roaring again. So because there’s only a small window between 15 and 18 and around 17.5, 18 when it was actually at peak. So I’m very positive that we’ll come across 15 probably in the new year for sure.

 

TN: In the new year. So Q1, you think things are coming back?

 

SM: Definitely. Definitely.

 

TN: Brent is in the mid 40s now. We see both Brent and WTI climbing slowly through the end of the year. Our view is that pricing will tick up in Q1 and then we see it trailing off a little bit later in the year. But we really do see a build through Q1. So it’s good. Thank you for confirming what we’re seeing.

 

You’re saying China’s got a quarter billion barrels in Anchorage and in transit, right? What’s their storage capacity? Is their storage capacity in excess of that, or will this stuff stay in floating storage?

 

SM: We did an actual manual survey. We went to storage farm of the storage farm with satellite imagery. And as compared to 2 years ago, you will actually see on Google Earth around 250 to 300 million barrels more than what it had. We have day-fresh images from Planet Labs and we were able to go in and see that year on year, China has the ability to add around a quarter billion barrels of free space. This is a drag and drop method with the standard size storage tanks of 100,000 cubic meters, which is 620,000 barrels. They just drop farms and you see just a whole new farm will pop up.

 

Since the consumption is down, there’s no pressure for them to do more. But we saw around 1.4 billion barrels of space and 1.1 billion barrels of occupancy. That was two years ago.

 

TN: Two years ago. It just seems like there’s so much supply and burning off that supply is still a challenge. We spoke with somebody from the Panama Canal about a month ago when she was talking about how LNG was redirected from the US to China to Europe or something. Are you still seeing redirection of shipments? Or are we back to almost normal trade patterns?

 

SM: In crude oil, we actually see a dog-eat-dog situation going on right now. For instance, Venezuela’s exports are down. It’s a toilet flush. It went down to a quarter million barrels a day now in our latest report. We’re using visual confirmation and I’ve never seen the number that low out of Venezuela. But here we are, we’re under 300 thousand for sure. For the average this year, it was around over half a million barrels a day.

 

But now lately, what happened is it just completely plummeted. A lot of the exports are going just to other countries so that they can bring in gasoline in exchange. It’s a barter.

 

What happens is, because they are shipping heavy sour crude oil, somebody else is going to eat their lunch. China wants to import that. India wants to import that. A lot of other countries in the Far East, they have heavy sour because they need the asphalt, they need the diesel. Why? Because they’re expanding their infrastructure.

 

What happened is that Iran started sending off a lot of the heavy sour lately. I noticed a lot of barrels heading out over that way. They’re getting assistance from other fleets from outside the country. The Chinese refiners and so on, they are dispatching vessels to pick up the oil. It’s not just the national running tanker company that’s delivering the oil.

 

TN: I’m really interested in that Iran-China trade lane. And you covered that a lot. With the circumvention of different agreements and embargoes, I see a lot of coverage of that. Do you see a growing dependence on Iranian oil out of China or does that seem to be declining? Do you see a diversity of suppliers? Of course, China has never had a single supplier. But do you see a growing number of suppliers and a growing dependence, say on Iranian crude? Or is it the other way around? Is Iran becoming increasingly dependent on China as an export market?

 

SM: Iran is growing more dependent on China because they’ve had four decades to prepare the whole Plan B for sanctions and so on. So they’ve really polished it up. They’ve smoothened out all the rough edges when it comes to sanctions so they know what they’re doing. But now, when I see how many barrels are leaving the country, and they look at the ratios of where it’s being sent, yes, they do send a lot to Syria, but it’s no more than usually around 100,000 barrels a day.

 

Once in March, a saw over a quarter million barrels a day. That’s because they have so much production going on in Iran and so little storage space. They have to get rid of it. And they are shipping a lot. So the current media narrative is that they’re exporting about somewhere between 70,000 and 200,000 barrels a day. That’s because those factories are only using AIS data, which is automatically picked up by systems. But what we do is the visual confirmation with satellite imagery, and we see around three to five times that. Somewhere between 600 and a million. And 600,000 barrels a day, that’s a lot. That’s 30 million barrels a month.

 

And so they have to get rid of these barrels because if they don’t, their production will have to drop even more to a point where they can’t revive those mature oil wells. It’s very costly to kick them back into action once sanctions do get listed.

 

And with the virus, what they do is they consume a lot domestically. They make it very cheap. And, because they’ve got to get rid of it, they store as much as they can. If they ran out of storage space on land, they put it on the vessel and they put on many vessels.

 

But now I’ve seen that the floating storage has dropped and shipped out a lot. China is the big buyer and there’s so many ways to deliver it to China. You can either go straight or you can meet another vessel halfway in the Strait of Malacca and so it’s a ship to ship transfer.

 

So, yes, Iran is more dependent on China than vice versa. And China does report their barrels is coming in from whoever the last port call was. So it’ll be Malaysia, it’ll be Indonesia, or someplace in between. It’s not coming in as Iranian anymore. Although in the latest monthly report, they had to show something, because this was obviously direct.

 

TN: You mentioned floating storage and VLCC market and it’s gone from a quarter million dollars a day back in April to like 6,000 dollars a day now. What happened there and why is that price just collapsed?

 

SM: It just deflated so rapidly. That thing was so much more volatile than Bitcoin back in 2017, 2016. The first thing you heard was the sanctions scare, the volume type of fleets back when, it’s almost a year ago or so. And so the Dalian Tanker Fleet was a large fleet or VLCC supertankers. 2 million dollars a piece and about 40 of them. So that created a scare hype in the market that there’ll be a shortage of vessels which were allowed to go to certain ports or most ports.

 

What happened was that the US, they used that as a means to improve the negotiation when it comes to the Phase 1 Trade Deal. And so they loosened up on those waivers, and eventually that was the main issue.

 

Then came the floating storage situation as a result of COVID and then that spike the price again. After that, it has come down quite a lot. So that’s moving a lot of oil back in Q2. And then it just quickly plummeted because Saudi just went from over 9 million barrels a day down to 6. That killed off the demand.

 

We saw occupancy of the VLCCs go from more than 50% down to early 40s. And these are 802 operating VLCCs worldwide, 600 something Suezmas and 1,053 Aframax. It’s a lot of barrel space out there available still today. So obviously, the prices have dropped.

Categories
QuickHit Visual (Videos)

QuickHit: Market unknowns and apprehensions

A returning guest joins us for another QuickHit talking about how the current market unknowns are affecting the economy, and what are these “unknowns” anyway? Independent trader Tracy Shuchart discusses with Tony Nash about the “buy-everything” market and why is it happening despite the worries and crashes of economies because of COVID. We’ve also looked at the crude oil market and whether it will recover or not and how? She also shares what she thinks about the regionalization and shifts in supply chain.

 

Tracy Shuchart is a trader portfolio manager and all-around high-profile, social media person on markets. We did the first two QuickHit episodes with her with the recent one on “Oil companies will either shut-in or cut back, layoffs not done yet“ last May.

 

 

This QuickHit episode was recorded on August 14, 2020.

 

The views and opinions expressed in this QuickHit episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Complete Intelligence. Any content provided by our guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any political party, religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.

 

Show Notes

TN: It feels like the markets have taken a breather this week. Is that what you’re seeing and also what are we waiting for?

 

TS: You notice all this entire summer, actually, that it’s been a buy-everything market. Bonds are up, equities are up, gold’s up, crude oil’s up, across the board, everything was up. Commodities, equities, fixed income, and then just starting in August about a week, week and a half ago, we started seeing some of that error let out of those sales.

 

Equities are still grinding higher but gold futures reached 2,089 dollars, and then came off to 200 dollars really quickly. It has stalled out over the last couple of days.

 

Crude oil in general, this summer has been stuck in a range. So, I guess you could say OPEC did their job. They wanted to stabilize the oil market. They did that.

 

Then this week we’ve seen some of the air come out of bonds. So I think, right now, it was kind of buy-everything. We had all this government stimulus, we had central bank stimulus and now we’re at the point where the government stimulus is out. The extra unemployment, PPP loans, there’s no more checks things like that. And then we have the election come up. The markets are waiting to see what’s going to happen.

 

 

TN: And RobinHood closed their api. So, we don’t know what the Robinhood traders are doing anymore.

 

 

TS: Yeah, so it just seems like there’s a lot of things that are unknown. If you look at the vix curve structure you see the kink in that November area. So, the markets are forward looking at that as an unknown. So, these next couple months might be either going to be flat until we find out or it’s going to get really volatile.

 

 

TN: Right, the one that really told me that we are in a pause is when gold turned around. When we started to see gold turning around and we’ve seen it paused where it is now, that’s really what showed me that things have changed or things have at least slowed down. And so, are we waiting for clarity around stimulus? Because I don’t think it’s earnings or anything like that that we’re looking for. It really does, as you said, kind of a stimulus-driven market. Is that really the next thing that we’re looking for?

 

TS: I think it’s a combination of things. Fed purchases have curtailed a tiny bit. We still have an unknown about what’s going to happen and congress just adjourned for recess without a decision. So, we won’t find out what a decision is really probably until September. That leaves a whole unknown, especially, when you’re talking about that extra unemployment.

 

The big thing is the election because we don’t know what the market’s going to do. If there’s a Biden win, that will only be a sector rotation in my opinion, because of what their agenda is. Everybody’s just very apprehensive right now. They are pulling back on, their involvement in the market being that there are a lot of big unknown factors out there right now.

 

TN: It’s really one of the only recessions where incomes have actually grown during the recession, which is weird. We’ve seen retail sales and industrial production in recent months come in and they’re actually okay. It seems like the breaks are put on that with stimulus stopped as well. The question really about being stagnant or rising? Or is there a possibility that we tip over and start to decline if stimulus isn’t forthcoming by the end of August or early September?

 

TS: That’s a possibility that we see a pullback in the markets absolutely. I don’t think you’re going to see anything, like we saw obviously back in February. But I could definitely see a market pull back just on people’s apprehensions of the unknown.

 

TN: As you mentioned OPEC and that crude oil has settled and it’s been horizontal for the past couple months. What would move that either way? Do you see airlines coming back online? Do you see major events happening that would really push the oil price up? Or do you think we’re just also in a waiting pattern there?

 

TS: We’re in a waiting pattern. But from what I’m seeing, the fundamentals are improving. Even though people don’t really want to see that. I look at driving patterns not only in the States but driving patterns in the world. I look at airlines and things of that nature and we are seeing a slight improvement. Everybody’s looking for a big crash in oil prices again but I don’t foresee that at this point. Unless, obviously, something fundamental changes, like the whole world goes on a lockdown again or some unforeseen event happens. But right now, the crude oil market looks pretty strong. We’re still over supply but we’re working off that oversupply. Especially going forward into 2021, when that supply really starts to be worked off, then we have a Capex problem. We’re gonna have a supply problem. I can forsee the oil prices even going higher into next year. But right now, I would say we’re stable to drift higher at to the end of the year. We are hitting that soft season. But again, I don’t see the oil market really pulling back that much at this point.

 

TN: Is the back-to-school factored into your expectation of rising oil prices or would that accelerate it?

 

TS: I believe that people will be apprehensive to send their kids on a school bus. So they’ll probably be driving them to school. That’s actually oil demand positive for me.

TN: Our view is to see oil grind higher into the end of the year. As of August 1st, that was our view as well. I’m also curious about your views on the dollar. Do you see any dramatic movements either way in the dollar or are we in the low 90s for the next few months?

 

TS: The market is so oversold at this point and everyone is so leaning bearish. I wouldn’t be surprised in he next couple of months if prices don’t go lower that people start to unwind those short trades and we could see not a huge spike in the dollar. But just a general unwind of that shortness.

 

TN: Great, okay, is there anything out there that you’re seeing that’s really interesting that we should know about? It’s late summer. People are tired. They’re not really all into work. Is there anything that you’re looking at that we’re not really paying attention to?

 

TS: The lumber market. I sent out a few tweets about that. I think that’s definitely something to watch because the housing market is doing better than anticipated. However, we don’t need things like extra ten twenty thousand dollars added on housing costs for new home builds. So, that’ll put a very big strain on the market and on home builders. So that’s definitely something to watch at this point.

TN: I noticed if you go to home depot, the lumber section is empty. That’s not where home builders go, but that’s what I see as a consumer is. It’s just empty. There look to be seriously obviously. There’s demand pulled but there really seems to be some sort of supply issue there as well.

 

TS: Yeah, there’s a supply issue. A lot of the mills have been closed like they’ve been closing for the last couple of years because the demand hasn’t really been that high, well at least in British Columbia. But with this new surge, I’m hearing that tons of mills are back up and running shifts  24/7 now. Even smaller mills that you used to do little to no business are back up and running. So, I think that looking forward October, November, we should see some more supplies.

 

 

 

TN: What we’ve seen since COVID from toilet paper to meat processing to lumber is real stress put on supply chains. And from your perspective as a portfolio manager and a trader, do times like this make you concerned about the stability of the U.S. economy or do these tests make you feel like the people participating in that economy are making their supply chains more resilient? Do you think people are actually investing to make those things more resilient or do you think they’re just getting through and they’ll forget about it within a few months?

 

TS: No, we are seeing some improvement on supply chains and moving forward. There are companies that are diversifying out of China. It’s in supply chains closer to the U.S., Mexico, Latin America. This particular incident, this COVID really made people rethink and reassess things and I think we are seeing changes. It’s not easy to move supply chains obviously, right? So, it’s just going to take some time but I definitely see in the markets where companies are changing.