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What’s Next For Crude Oil, Gold, And Cryptos?

As US and other markets decouple in terms of recovery trajectories, should investors adjust their portfolio? BFM spoke to Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence, on the major selldown of cryptocurrencies, as well as his thoughts on oil, gold, and inflation.

 

This podcast first appeared and originally published at https://www.bfm.my/podcast/morning-run/market-watch/whats-next-for-crude-oil-gold-and-cryptos on May 21, 2021.

 

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Show Notes

 

RK: Well, choppy waters, to say the least. There is a little bit of a mixed day yesterday over in Asia. But right now, to talk more about global markets, we have Tony Nash CEO for Complete Intelligence for more insights here. Tony, good morning and thank you for joining us on the line. Now, it looks like the U.S. and other markets are beginning to decouple in terms of recovery trajectories. How do you think investors should allocate their portfolios according to this scenario?

 

TN: Well, obviously depends on the time, but I think that some action was taken yesterday in the U.S. around Fed comments as people were trying to decipher whether those comments were positive or negative. And today, I think they realized they were actually fairly dovish comments. So the U.S. is positioning itself to grow and other parts of the world say Europe and parts of Asia are still very conservative about opening until, you know, I think with the places that are being fairly conservative about opening, it really depends on investment, really depends on government assistance, monetary policy, you know, these sorts of things.

 

So investing in those markets depends on support that those companies are going to get and how how those investments will perform.

 

LM: Yeah, I’m just wondering, there has been increasing fears about inflation. Is that influencing or changing your views right now?

 

TN: Well, so, you know, we’re realizing that things like like lumber prices, which a lot of people talk about, that’s been a processing issue in sawmills. There’s a lot of raw lumber out there. Those prices in many cases are the same as they were like, say, 10 years ago. OK, it’s the process into their bottom and making issues in a number of other areas. One area that we’re keeping an eye on is crude oil, which I know is important later, of course.

 

And we’re not we don’t expect a dramatic rise in crude oil prices, partly because I still have six million barrels a day on the sidelines right now. So even if we saw a dramatic uptick in travel and other activity, power generation and so on, there’s spare capacity on the sidelines for a lot of countries to be holding down. So we don’t expect to see and short of having production cuts, we don’t expect to see dramatic oil price rises because that that supply will come on the market as needed.

 

RK: Right. And beyond crude, Tony, do you know crude oil in general is quite correlated to inflationary pressures and prices, but beyond crude oil, are you paying attention to any other commodities out there? Because, you know, we’re seeing a surge in all of them. Which ones particularly catch your eye?

 

TN: For industrial metals are the ones that have really rallied from, say, November or December through this month? What we expect is not pricing to continue to stay strong, but the rate of rise will will slow down.

 

OK, so we’ll continue, for example, to see high copper prices, but we don’t expect copper prices to rise at the same rate as they had been for the past five or six months. We see that across the board in a lot of commodities where we have seen really dramatic rises based on, you know, government spending, monetary policy and also uncertainty about the direction of the dollar when these things are positioned in or denominated in U.S. dollars. We’ve also seen over that same time, because it’s so going that in China we saw the Chinese renminbi appreciate pretty dramatically, which made the dollar denominated commodities really cheap.

 

And so there’s been accumulation of those commodities in China, whether it’s food or whether it’s industrial or metals. And we’ve seen that stuff accumulated in China because these things are really kind of pretty cheap for them in China in terms.

 

RK: And one more commodities. Want to get your views on here, Tony, is gold because it’s seen some strengthening over the last few weeks. In fact, you know, it was more towards the high single digits. Now it’s at the one percent range. Do you expect it to break into the green? And what kind of range do you expect for the year?

 

TN: You know, we do expect gold to continue to rise at least through August, August, September. We think that there’s kind of a sweet spot and people take a pause on, say, cryptocurrency. And as people look at some of these other metals and other commodities where the growth opportunity has slowed, we do expect attention to gold as well as kind of other inflation and currency risk type of focus will turn to gold as well. We expect there to rise through those then kind of a pause late Q3 and then we expect that to continue toward the end of the year.

So we’re not looking at a doubling of prices or looking at a know, low double digit type of price rises in.

 

LM: And Tony, twenty twenty one was supposed to be a bumper year for U.S. IPOs. Is it still buoyant or has sentiment turned more south?

 

TN: No, no, even seems like like Robin Hood starting to offer fractional IPO shares on their platform. So where IPO are typically restricted to a select few? We’re starting to see some things happen where where smaller investors are given opportunities in some of these IPO. So we do expect that to continue as long as investors are there to invest in IPO. And we don’t necessarily expect that that will taper off dramatically. We may see some hesitation if we see markets turn south in June, July, but we won’t necessarily see a dramatic taper off to the end of the year.

 

NL: So we have seen the major sell down of crypto currencies. How is the volatility affecting crypto companies like Coinbase and market confidence to gain legitimacy with institutional investors?

 

TN: Yeah, no doubt it’s hurting their credibility because cryptocurrency has kind of become a bit of a mockery over the past week or so, we assume on tweets and a number of other things. But I don’t necessarily believe that crypto currencies are a thing of the past. They haven’t been retired yet, but we do expect to see cryptocurrency is more regulation, more explicit regulation and kind of soft infrastructure around cryptocurrency like Coinbase that goes along with it. They’ll have the infrastructure to be able to help in that crypto investors who along with regulation and do just fine.

 

TN: So I don’t think crypto her dad the new not necessarily realize that they thought they may, but but I do think it’s still something that’s viable within the broad based interests.

 

RK: Thank you so much for your time this morning. That was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. And let’s take a quick look over at the coin prices right now. Bitcoin thing, a little bit of a recovery. It’s up two point six per cent now, forty one thousand dollars and on a year to date basis, up to forty one point six percent year to date, still far off from the 100 percent or 90 percent year to date gains we saw earlier this this year.

We take a look at Etha. It is now two thousand seven hundred and seventeen dollars, or seventy two thousand two hundred eighty dollars a coin up a little bit, point four percent year to date, up 275 percent.

 

NL: Yeah, very quickly as well. Taking a look at a piece of news, the first quarter of 2021 doesn’t appear to be working out in a week’s favor. According to the F.T., Quarterly losses almost quadrupled on year to over two billion dollars.

 

RK: We work not working. Yeah, that’s a headline in the making right there. The losses incurred as so far this year, three point two billion dollars in 2020. Revenue fell almost 50 percent on year from one point one billion to six hundred million dollars. And the company lost around 200000 customers from a year ago. And this, of course, all information, according to the Financial Times, because this is not a public listed company just yet. In fact, they’re looking to try and go public again later this year after their first failed attempt a year to be eighty nine point nine.

 

 

 

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Podcasts

Synthetic Economy

Tony Nash joins the BFM Morning Run podcast from Malaysia and explained why we have synthetic economy and how to navigate through this. Also discussed are tech stocks — is this the end for them?

 

This podcast first appeared and originally published at https://www.bfm.my/podcast/morning-run/market-watch/synthetic-economy on March 4, 2021.

 

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Show Notes

 

WSN: Nasdaq closed sharply down last night, continuing a trend that sees it almost erased all its year-to-date gains led by declines in Apple, Amazon and Tesla. Is this the end of big tech?

 

TN: I don’t think it’s the end of big tech. I think investors are taking a pause. We saw tech jump a lot in the wake of Covid. Investors are really starting to wonder how much additional growth is there over time. We’ve seen the work-from-home stocks and other things really get lifted through Covid. But how much immediate rapid growth is left is where a lot of the investor questions lie.

 

WSN: Is this also the beginning of a trend where we really see the rotation from growth into value?

 

TN: “Value” is a scary word right now. It has been for a long time. We have a ways to go, but I think we could get there. We’ve been talking for a few months about a pullback in March and we expect the pullback to continue and will begin to recover in late March, April. So we think this has a little ways to go unless there’s dramatic intervention by central banks and other things. But we think this pullback is not ideal but it’s necessary given stretched valuations and stretched expectations. So this is healthy for us. We just need to figure out what to do with it.

 

PS: Just give me another angle that instead of looking at it from values about sector specific, because yesterday, energy and financials did do relatively well. But was the energy upside due to the rising prices? And how does that correlate with OPEC’s decision coming soon with respect to oil production?

 

TN: I don’t think it gets really much more complicated than rising oil prices. These energy companies generally are still extremely bloated, extremely inefficient. Aside from the crude pressurizing, there really isn’t a lot that we see driving it. So we do expect commodities to take a pause. We’ve expected this for some time. We’ve seen copper come down by five percent or something.

 

Over the past few trading days, crude oil has leveled off in general. It’s not rising as fast as it was. Some of this has to do with CNY starting to weaken a bit. Chinese and the U.S. Dollar to start to strengthen their sort of related, but they’re not necessarily one and the same. So as we see some of that, an unraveling of some of that, Kerry, we’ll see some commodities start to come off of it as well.

 

WSN: BDA shows that the U.S. manufacturing grew at its fastest pace in three years. So are we really on the road to recovery?

 

TN: I don’t necessarily think that the economic growth expectations that we’ve seen from economists saying seven percent growth or something like that are necessarily the right way to go. When we look at the growth that we saw in Q4 and the growth that we’ve seen in Q1, I’m not sure we’re already back, at least in the U.S., to where we were before the virus. And so it’s really questionable for an economy that’s been growing one to three percent, depending on the year. Is a seven percent growth rate really warranted? Additionally, when you see things like deflation and the Chinese CPI, those two growth engines, we’re not necessarily seeing the rapid growth that some people have been claiming.

 

PS: Just another angle then, which is employment data, because December, January data didn’t meet expectations. What’s your outlook for February then?

 

TN: It’ll probably be OK. I think if the employment data is extremely positive. The US is susceptible to politicization of macro data just like everyone else. If we see a pop in employment data, I think they would be revised out. All of these macroeconomic indicators are revised three or four times. If we see a pop in a sample of employment data, which they look at a subset of houses and companies, they don’t look at the entire economy. If we see a pop, which we’re not necessarily seeing, we think that would be revised out over time. So I would say be really careful about optimism here. OK, it’s great. I live in Texas. We just announced that Texas one hundred percent open yesterday. All this stuff. It’s great to be optimistic, but we’ve really had synthetically driven growth. It’s not necessarily real growth. It’s all subsidized growth in many, many countries over the last, say, nine to 12 months.

 

WSN: That’s very true because this the twin Goldilocks effect of monetary and fiscal stimulus but somewhat related to unemployment numbers is that if the number is better on Friday, do you think markets might get nervous? Because that’s one of the indicators the feds are looking at to raise rates.

 

TN: We’re in that place where bad news is bad news and good news is potentially bad news. So we really have to be careful. What’s going to happen to Treasuries? Is the Fed going to raise rates? How does all that work if we start going to hot? I think it’s the right question that you’re asking. When we have an equity market and global equity markets that are so stretched, if the cost of money, which is what interest rates are, starts to rise, then we really have to be careful about equity valuations.

 

PS: During a deep dove into a specific sector, which is basically all this office collaboration companies like Zoom and Slack, what’s your outlook for those kind of sectors in the short term and mid-term?

 

TN: It’s good. They’ve grown a huge amount over the past year, but I really think we have to look at what growth is. They’re likely going forward, meaning there is growth. But is it as fast as what we’ve seen over the past year? I think the answer is probably no. They are probably also working on their revenue models to monetize some of the things that they’ve been giving away for free for the past year. Like a Zoom call is free. How do they monetize those things? That’s a serious question, but what are they substitution for and what do they enhance?

 

They’ve been substitution for meeting face to face people in the same office. But as more places go back to work, albeit slowly, they won’t necessarily need that for day to day, although it’ll still be used. Again, my question is the growth will be slower, but I would hope it’s better growth, meaning more monetized growth.

 

WSN: All right. Thank you for your time. That was Tony Nash of Complete Intelligence, giving us his views on markets and a very important point in that all these work from home teams may be the easy money is made because we did see stellar growth. Right, as everyone switch to zoom calls and all these kind of new technology. But now the question is, are we going to really see profit coming in? Is there going to be margin expansion?

 

PS: I want to know how they’re going to monetize and whether they’re going to expand the services beyond what they do. As Tony, you see, a lot of it is kind of free of charge. So what is the business model going to evolve to deliver sustainable profit? It’s a big question mark for me.

 

WSN: Yeah, and one company which hasn’t impressed is actually Snowflake, and that’s a data cloud company. Now, they announce a revenue for fourth quarter, which came in at one hundred and ninety million U.S. dollars, slightly better than the one hundred seventy eight million dollars that was expected. So this represents I mean, it is impressive when you just look at the headline numbers. It represents one hundred and seventeen percent growth year on year. But like as Tony highlighted, this company actually suffers a net loss.

 

So their net loss widened to one hundred and ninety nine million U.S. dollars. That’s more than double that 83 million in the. The same period a year ago.

 

PS: Yeah, I mean, the markets didn’t like it because the stock dropped eight percent on Wednesday. I mean, just a reminder to all of you guys, Snowflake was the largest IPO in 2020. Right. So with respect to guidance, snowflakes specs 185 to 200 million U.S. dollars in productivity in the first fiscal quarter, which is will be up about 90 to 96 percent year on year.

 

WSN: So, yeah, you can be hard on a stock that has a fantastic concept data. Right. Everybody wants that in the clouds. But in a day, patience with investors will run thin if you don’t make money. And that’s the reality of any business. So I think, like you sit like what Tony highlighted those companies where you see stellar revenue growth, but not profit after a while.

 

Market’s not going to tolerate it for that long. And when they issue like a set of results, which are below expectations and widened widening, no losses, no end to that, you know, no no sense of when are they going to turn around. I think you then see that sharp sell down again.

 

PS: And take, you know Tony, said something really interesting. Bad news is bad news. Good news could be potentially bad news.

 

WSN: Is that there is the cup half full or is it half empty? Sometimes the market is like this, the same set of data. Depending on the mood, the sentiment can be viewed either very positively or negatively. So if you get a better data but you’re in a positive mood, you can say, oh, the worst is over, let’s look forward.

 

But if you’re in a bad mood or you think the market’s being pessimistic and resolve, everyone’s like, oh, no more to come. So who knows? But up next, we’ll be speaking to on JinMing MP for Bungay about Malaysia’s economic recovery. Stay tuned. BFM eighty nine point nine.

 

Categories
Podcasts

Cold Front on Oil Prices?

Tony Nash is back in the Morning Run, hosted by BFM 89.9, as he points out the crude oil price and how long to expect the rally, considering factors like weather, demand, and supply. Tony also mentioned about a potential pullback and snap and how you can better be prepared for it. Should you continue buying tech stocks or move elsewhere? Also, they discussed crops and where the prices are going this year.

 

This podcast first appeared and originally published at https://www.bfm.my/podcast/morning-run/market-watch/cold-front-on-oil-prices on February 18, 2021.

 

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BFM Description

 

Tony Nash from Complete Intelligence, from freezing Texas, shares with us the current supply constraints in the US impacting oil prices in the short- and medium-term.

 

Produced by: Mike Gong

 

Presented by: Philip See, Wong Shou Ning

 

 

Show Notes

 

WSN: For some color on where global markets are heading, we have in the line with us Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Tony, are you freezing out there in Texas?

 

TN: Yes, we are. We haven’t had it this cold air for decades. So it’s it’s been a really interesting week.

 

WSN: That has had an impact on oil prices. Bloomberg showing Brent crude at $64 per barrel, WTI at $61 per barrel. So how badly impacted our energy markets at the moment? Where do you think oil prices are going?

 

TN: A lot of this is very short term. What you’re not seeing that the traders really pay attention to right now is that a lot of refineries are closed because of weather and they’re starting to close for annual maintenance. There’s this presumption that there’s a demand pull, which we’re not really seeing from anywhere in the world right now, and that the winter storm issues will pull energy prices. But again, the fact is the refineries that would take this stuff are closed. We expect this to be short lived. This is an extension of a crude price rally that we saw that we expected to come in Jan, it’s lasted into February and we really don’t expect this to have a lot of legs to it.

 

PS: What do you think the outlook looks like then for the mid-term like quarter to quarter three?

 

TN: We would see 10 to 20 percent off of this price? We don’t necessarily think that this is a sustainable level short of some sort of supply cuts. But the weather in Texas, for example, we’re going to be kind of in normal weather ranges in two days. What we’ve seen this week and the close down, as we’ve seen this week, it’ll take people a couple of days, maybe a week at most to get things back on line. So this perceived supply shortage will be back on line fairly soon.

 

WSN: How about yields on U.S. 10 year bonds? Because they’ve hit a new high one year high. What what is that trying to tell this? What a market try to tell us?

 

TN: U.S. is trying to raise money and they’re willing to pay more for it. I think that is is really it. I think there is a growing fear that equity markets are as high as they’ll get. We’ve started to see more of that tension come in into chatter over the last few days. People are willing to pay to get out of markets, to park their money in debt.

 

So I’m sure it helps the U.S. as they’re raising more money for stimulus and for operations. But as we creep up to four thousand, that is just unimaginable for a lot of people. And it’s not as if we are doing better as an economy than we were in 2019 or the first quarter of 2020. This is built on stimulus, as we’ve talked about before. It’s built on central bank activity.

 

And you can only stretch that so far before things have to snap. We’ll see some of these things that are at double and triple and quadruple kind of the standard multiples. And P is the only way to measure this stuff. But we’ll see things that are really, really stretched, snap into a more reasonable region. But it’ll happen any time tomorrow, three weeks from now, a month from now, whatever. It’ll just happen. It’ll happen any time. And it’s best to be prepared for it.

 

PS: So are you expecting some pullback eventually? Right. What is the tipping point where investors will essentially do that exodus or flock to U.S. Treasuries then?

 

TN: One of the tipping points is going to be the resolution of stimulus. I’ve been saying for weeks that stimulus will not be what the administration wants it to be. There are such high expectations put on that stimulus right now and they’re not going to get it. They’ll get a lot of it, but they’re not going to get all of it. Expectations are sky high. And when it doesn’t hit, I think that will be one of the catalysts.

 

But there are other things like when the crude price starts to fall because this supply constraint isn’t there anymore. These sorts of things, these things add up and then they snowball and and then you start to see markets really, really take a dove. We’re not necessarily calling for a 2008 generational type of decline in markets. It’s just a bit of a pullback so that people can just say, “OK, wait a minute, let’s check, take stock how businesses are doing. Take a look at our investments and our allocation and then reallocate.” That’s really what it’s about.

 

WSN: Where would you relocate to and what are the safe haven assets? Because almost every asset class on a year to date basis is up. Right. And maybe except for Google, which is down six percent on the year today.

 

TN: What you’re likely going to see is a pretty serious rotation out of technology where people have focused on because of the work from home activities. This may not be immediate, but I think you’ll see a rotation out of a lot of the work from home stuff as people start real life again and you’ll see people move into. This is not really my the basis of our outlook. But you may see more of a regional move into things like tourism.

 

These things have just taken real hits. A lot of them have had speculative rises, some of the cruise lines. But some of them are still way down. All of this depends on gradual normalization. But I can tell you, Americans are really tired of being locked in, really tired of not socializing. And some of these things are going to have to start up again.

 

PS: What about not all out commodities then, like agriculture and precious metals?

 

TN: We had some real pressure. And part of the reason of that pressure was because there was a perception that a lot of the Chinese corn crop didn’t come in last year. But a lot of the drought was outside of that zone. Some of that pressure was alleviated.

 

But still, we’re seeing some pressure on wheat right now in the U.S. It really all depends on how much the current cold snap impacts the output later in the year or the ability to plant. Right now it’s not terrible.

 

Until we start seeing real demand come back in entertaining and in consumption and these sorts of things, we’re not going to see a major demand pull on food because people are already buying their standard cook at home type of things right now as they’ve rebuilt their behaviors over the last year. We’ll see that change. But unless we see a drought or unless we see an issue in a high consumption part of the world, we’re not necessarily going to see a boom in those places.

 

WSN: All right. Thank you for your time. That was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence, giving us his views on global markets and saying that, hey, oil prices are going to come under pressure probably in the next two to three months, because this is not really driven by real demand, is just probably weather patterns which are going to normalize anyway in Texas in a few days.

 

PS: He also made a point about oil, where this, I think, a slight surge in prices is actually a short term because supply is going to get back on quite soon.

 

WSN: Yeah, but other interesting news is actually the ongoing saga of big tech versus Australia, because it looks like Facebook has defied Australia’s push to make big pay for news by banning the sharing of content on its platform in the country. And this is the most far reaching restriction is ever placed on any publisher in any part of the world.

 

PS: So the extreme step to remove Australian news came as Google separately struck a global deal with Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp diffusing a long running dispute between the two companies. The dramatically different approaches could mark a pivotal moment for the media industry, which had hoped Australia’s tough regulatory approach would help reset its terms of trade with Google and Facebook worldwide.

 

WSN: So the moves by Google and Facebook came on the day Australia begin debating laws that would force big online platforms to license news. Now Facebook’s action will have a global impact. Under the provisions, news from Australian publishers will be blocked on the platform for all Facebook users, regardless of where they are based. The Australian government said it will continue to engage with Facebook. Press ahead with legislating the code, Canberra also warned that withdrawing news from Facebook’s platform in Australia could dent its credibility with users.

While this is quite big stuff. Actually, yes.

 

PS: Yes. I mean, Australia wasn’t the first country to, you know, get into this spat. I think you really was in having discussions. And France and Spain already had deals with a lot of with Google and Facebook with respect to media purchase. But it’s a question about publishers.

 

WSN: Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, right. We do know media companies are suffering. Right. Álex has come under pressure. Subscriber growth has come down. How a media company is going to generate the revenue. So in the past, all these big tech companies, the argument was that they got to earn super normal above what is the what super normal profits without paying the likes of the media companies because they were using these media companies content to their benefit.

 

So some countries like Australia and even if you try to kind of diffuse the situation and have, I suppose maybe in their mind, a fairer playing field. But the Google deal nonetheless, if you look at it, the Google deal with News Corp announced on Wednesday goes beyond the Australian market, extending to Murdoch’s titles such as The Wall Street Journal and The New York Post in the U.S. and The Times and the Sun in the UK. No other news publisher has reached a single deal with Google across multiple countries.

 

Now, critics say the deal would benefit News Corp. rather than the rest of the news industry.

 

PS: Yes, well, we’ve been talking about the price. And since you looking at Google’s valuation, I suspect Google’s to be the winner because they have just really this unique access to this quality content. So. So why not?

 

WSN: Well, they’ve pledged so far to spend one billion over the years on buying news content and reach agreements with publishers in about a dozen countries.

 

But we’ll be watching this space because we do a media outlet.

 

But up next, we’ll be discussing the recently announced national unity blueprint. Stay tuned for that. BFM eighty nine point nine.

 

Thank you for listening to this podcast. To find full great interviews, go to PFM Goodbye or find us on iTunes, BFM eighty nine point nine. That is the station.

 

Categories
Podcasts

American Carnage

In this Morning Run BFM podcast episode, Tony Nash justifies his pessimistic outlook of the US political environment on markets and the transition of the Reddit Army into a full-blown populist movement. Will this be a common theme in the US markets? And what does he mean about the 97% correlation between Bitcoin and gun sales?

 

This podcast first appeared and originally published at https://www.bfm.my/podcast/morning-run/market-watch/american-carnage on February 4, 2021.

 

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Show Notes

 

WSN: To find out where global markets are heading, we have on the line with us Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Let’s have this little bit of discussion. Will the tussle between the populous investors and institutional shareholders lead to any real structural change in the way Wall Street behaves? Do you think this is going to be a common phenomenon?

 

TN: I do. I don’t think we’ll see much change politically because the funds themselves are very large donors for politicians. There really isn’t an incentive for politicians and regulators to change things. But the populism that we’ve seen in U.S. politics over the last four to six years or even 10 years, it’s growing into financial markets and people are really angry with Wall Street. They’re really angry with bailouts for funds and for banks.

 

This type of populist activism and distributing investment are going to continue and it’ll get more aggressive if the government doesn’t respond or if the funds respond aggressively and arrogantly. This could turn into an aggressive political movement. The funds and the regulators have to be really careful here.

 

PS: You really hit the nail on the head because if you see the backlash, you see the right wing with Ted Cruz, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on the left, both asking for investigations and reviews to this. Do you think the US government and the politics of both sides will be able to reconcile and find a solution to regulate, monitor this?

 

TN: They may have an “investigation.” I think nothing will happen. Again, these funds have deep pockets. They invest a lot of money, either directly or indirectly through shadow organizations and corrupt means. So zero will happen on this. Unless there is dramatic…

 

You guys have heard of Antifa in Malaysia, right? If Wall Street needs turned into an Antifa-like organization, and had violent protests, then maybe we would see some results. But there is absolutely no way short of violence in the streets that the US government… You will have Ted Cruz, you will have AOC talk about this. But this government will not respond to this because it’s in their interest to defend these funds.

 

PS: Tony, I’m gobsmacked. In just last month, we had an insurrection and impeachment and inauguration in the space of two weeks. Isn’t that like a big paradigm shift in the politics? Don’t you see any changes there?

 

TN: Here’s what I learned today and I’ll get to your point in just a second. There is a 97% correlation between the sale of guns and the price of Bitcoin in the U.S.. What does that tell us? It tells us there is an absolute lack of trust in institutions. People can’t trust law enforcement. They can’t trust politics. They can’t trust the central bank. Americans feel like they just can’t trust institutions. So they’re investing in Bitcoin and they’re buying guns. So there is a real frustration among Americans. They just absolutely don’t trust the government.

 

WSN: That’s an interesting point, Tony. But on the flip side, if I look at Biden’s administration. Let’s talk about his stimulus plans, because originally the target was a $1.9 trillion plan. But I think that’s probably likely to be scaled down, especially with the vaccination rollout. So what do your gut feel in terms of what the figure will be?

 

TN: The administration, unfortunately, has lost a lot of credibility because they two million or 20 million vaccines over the past week. They’ve come in saying that they had a better plan and then they’ve actually lost 20 million vaccines. This is supposed to be a Covid relief bill with more money for vaccines and more money to address Covid. But they can’t manage the resources they have today. People are really frustrated with that as this stupid $600 they’ve been promising for six months. Nobody even wants it now. People are so frustrated over this whole thing.

 

So will it be scaled back? Probably. You have Republicans in the Senate especially, who are being really stupid politically by pushing back on this. And you have Democrats who are pushing for stupid spending programs. Again, there is frustration. This is not just in Texas. This is across the country. Americans are so upset with government and so frustrated that they just want something passed and they want the least damage possible. They know it’s going to be a dumb bill. They know there’s going to be pork and they know there’s going to be corruption, but they want the least damage possible done with this.

 

WSN: But if I look at markets, it doesn’t seem like, you know, that that there’s any negativity or disappointment, right? Yeah. Because we are looking at, you know, the index also NASDAQ closed to an all time high. So are you saying that markets are reflecting this or, you know, there’s just too much optimism in terms of forward earnings?

 

TN: No, the markets are reflecting a bet on the central bank. They’re betting on the stimulus coming from the bill, passing through consumers and passing through businesses. And they’re betting on the the bailouts for different industries, on a weaker dollar, on a lot of things. That’s what they’re betting on. They’re not betting on earnings or on corporate health.

 

We suspect that the stimulus won’t be as strong as many had hoped and the central bank won’t be as accommodating as many hope and that there will be a pullback. We think there’s going to be something this quarter in terms of a pullback. But again, nobody is betting on companies or sectors.

 

WSN: All right. Thank you for your time. That was Tony Nash of Complete Intelligence, giving us his views on where global markets are heading and in particular on the U.S. government.

 

Some interesting points. Right Philip?

 

PS: I’m kind of lost for words for that. He really is pushing for this decade implosion of the once vaunted American institution.

 

WSN: He’s saying that there’s a lot of dissatisfaction with regards to the roll out of the stimulus plan. That it is very, very delayed. And people just like, hurry up, just sign the bill and  hand out those 600 U.S. dollar checks. The longer you wait after a while, people just don’t seem to care about it.

 

But when I look at the markets, I’m somewhat still conflicted because I’m not in total agreement with him. I think markets are pricing in vaccine optimism. And on the back of that, there will be some corporate earnings, especially when you come to the tech companies. So is the whole of America unhappy? Well, we do know from the way the vote, is a very divided nation.

Categories
Podcasts

BBC Business Matters Podcast: What Tesla needs to do to justify valuation

Our CEO and founder Tony Nash joins Jimmy Robertson at the BBC for Business Matters podcast where they discussed about the importance of Tesla in the stock market and in the auto industry. What is the additional factor that really helps Tesla justify its valuation? Also discussed are the protests in Ukraine dominated by women, community theaters in COVID era, and how the future of work from home looks like.

 

This podcast was published on September 2, 2020 and the original source can be found at https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w172x18xp28m1xj

 

BBC Business Matters Description:

 

The chief and other police leaders step down following accusations of cover-up in the Daniel Prude case, a black man who was hooded and restrained during an arrest. Michael Wilson is a reporter at the New York Times who’s been covering the story.

 

Also in the programme electric car company Tesla’s shares tumble almost 20 percent after it failed to be included in the S&P 500 index. Richard Waters, the Financial Times West Coast Editor in San Francisco explains. And English composer and theatre impresario Andrew Lloyd Webber warns the future of theatre is on a knife edge.

 

Show Notes

 

JR: Tony, is this getting any coverage at all in the U.S.?

 

TN: Very little, actually. There’s a great story of three leading women in Ukraine with the Tikhanovskaya election, I think what’s happening with Kolesnikova is pretty amazing and the fact that she’s staying becauseTikhanovskaya actually left the country, of course. So there is such passion here about Belarus that is pretty incredible. And one has to wonder, can they be determined enough to see this through? I think they can. And would it have other effects on other countries in the region? I think it’s possible actually. If they can have a peaceful protest, which is amazing to bring this change about, I think it’s possible that this could happen to other countries in the region.

 

JR: The situation does seem to be very much on a knife edge. I mean, everyone is very worried about what how Russia is going to react and also, of course, how the West is going to react as well. But it was just a small comment which was made about the fact that women have been very prominent in this particular line of protest, basically as opposition leaders, but also actually out on the streets. Now, just trying to think whether I’ve known of any other protests where you’ve had women dominating the protests. I think you perhaps probably in Argentina where you seen you remember the mothers who protested about the disappeared children. But I can’t think of many other places. I’m not quite sure why women dominate this particular protest.

 

TN: Was it in Georgia? I think like 20 years ago, what was her name? But I know that former Soviet republics have had women protest leaders and female prime ministers. And so I do think that that it’s not I’ll try to dig up her name, but it’s not unprecedented. But I think the determination is because it is a woman who was elected and then the protest leaders are also women. I think it’s very amazing.

 

JR: Well, Tesla’s importance, but to two things. One, its importance to the stock market, to the Nasdaq and how it is a kind of bellwether within the actual tech stocks and the other is its importance within the auto industry. Let’s just talk about, of course, two things are connected, but let’s just talk about its importance in on the stock market. I mean, it really is one of the reasons why the stock market has fallen. But Nasdaq I mean, I don’t know if people have been following this, but Nasdaq has fallen in the last three trading days, has fallen 10 percent. I mean, we’re talking about a proper correction here. A lot of that was Tesla, wasn’t it?

 

TN: It was and just today, Tesla fell 21 percent in value. So if we looked at Tesla last week, the valuation was around 1,100 times earnings. Today, the value is 855 times earnings. So it’s still incredibly highly valued. You know, valuations range between, say, 15 and 25 times earnings, maybe more 30, 35. But Tesla is trading at, 100, more than 100, almost 200 times earnings of a car company. And so it is incredibly highly valued. Whether it’s overvalued or not, that depends on what the market says. But just to put it in perspective, Tesla makes about 400,000 vehicles a year. Volkswagen makes almost 11 million. Yet Tesla is valued much more highly than Volkswagen is.

 

JR: But we are talking about potential. And I mean always when you’re buying a stock, you’re not looking really at what it has done. You’re looking at what it’s going to do. And that is why people have been buying it.

 

TN: Is it overvalued?

 

JR: I know you. The answer is I don’t know. But I mean, it’s over. But it’s…

 

TN: It’s really interesting that the founder of Great Wall Motors in China, I think that’s who it was, once said that a car is nothing more than four wheels and two sofas. And, you know, he really helped build the Chinese auto industry on the back of that philosophy. So, Tesla is four wheels in two sofas with some really interesting interfaces and monitors. And, of course, it has an electric engine, these sorts of things. But the real question is, are they selling units or are they selling technologies?

 

Because if you’re selling, let’s say, a piece of software, Apple sells the iPhone, but they also sell a lot of software around that. OK, is Tesla pushing the number of units to be able to sell the amount of software it needs to sell to justify the valuation it has? So if you take that comparison to, say, Tesla is equivalent to, say, an Apple, they just don’t have the number of units in the market to push the software they would need in my mind to justify the valuation. That’s nothing against Tesla. I just think they need more units in the market to be able to push that software technology story.

 

JR: You’re talking about the software technology that surrounds the car you mean, that sort of self-driving stuff or whatever. It’s going to be electronics, not all that.

 

TN: That’s right. Because you would pay subscription fees and other things on that software and the upgrades and the safety and other things. Right. Because without that, it’s just four wheels and two sofas. Right. It’s a pretty cool four wheels and two sofas. But for the most part, it’s four wheels that gets you around from place to place. So what is that additional factor that really helps Tesla justify its valuation?

 

They’ve got a very outspoken CEO. They do a lot of cool stuff. It’s electric, but a lot of companies have electric car technology now. So they’re not unique.

 

JR: So what you’re saying also, I mean, the question which I asked Richard right at the end was about whether it’s going to be tech companies are going to be buying cars from the future or whether it’s going to be the likes of Volkswagen and whether Volkswagen and GM and the rest of them can actually turn themselves around and become tech companies. I suppose that really is the question.

 

TN: Well, I guess the question is, is that tech modular enough for them to buy and integrate into their manufacturing scale? And so, you know, can they buy the electronic displays? Can they buy and build the electric engine technology? Can they have their own, say, autopilot or self-driving software?

 

I think it’s possible for all of them to do it, especially when you look at a Volkswagen or something like that. So, Tesla always has to be on the edge. And I don’t have a position in Tesla. I don’t have anything for or against Tesla. I just think that as a technology company, they need to make sure that they’re so far ahead of every other auto company. And if they aren’t, then people are going to start questioning their valuation.

 

JR: Are they that far ahead? We don’t know yet. You know,

 

TN: I think they probably are far ahead in some areas. But for the most part, most drivers really are not that discerning around the technology. Most people don’t have the newest iPhone. They have an iPhone. Most people don’t have the newest, you know, fill in the blank. They have something that works. And so, you know, the real question is, can Tesla… Well, they’ve already cashed in, as your story said, they pulled five billion dollars out of the market last week. Right. So they’re cashing in on this and good for them. That’s a good management decision for them to look at a share price that’s really highly valued and pull some money out. That’s a great management decision. And so the real question is, can they continue to keep their valuation up?

 

I guess a precursor question is to that is what is keeping their valuation up? And then they have to look at do they have that much of a technology lead that people care about to be able to justify that, let’s say, high valuation? And I think those are really, really important questions. No doubt they have cool technology, but cool technology is not necessarily the most useful technology, especially if it’s not resulting in unit sales. Again, Tesla sells 400,000 units. Volkswagen sells 11 million units, yet Tesla is valued much higher.

 

JB: In Texas. I gather you have you managed to buy into it? You have been to the theater?

 

TN: Yes, I’ve been to the theater twice, two times over the past month.

 

JB: Fantastic. What?…

 

TN: My son is an actor and he acts in community theater and it was great to be in the theater. But there were social distancing and all sorts of considerations wearing masks, these sorts of things. People sat in family groups. There had to be distance between family groups, that sort of thing. So the financial issues that were discussed at length, you know, it’s the same thing with community theater here. I think they could only sell, say, 30 percent of the tickets that they would normally sell. So, you know, it’s a great performance on a really creative budget. And so but it is amazing to get out, be with people, see people, be at the theater. It’s fantastic.

 

JR: Can they can they survive as a community? I mean, are they able to make enough money to keep going?

 

TN: They can. In some cases, people bought tickets and chose not to attend so that they could help the theater out while still having distance, so that’s one way to do it. The theater had some additional things you could buy, that sort of thing, but I think they could do it. I think they could do it, but the productions would probably have to be a bit smaller. And so, you know, anyway, I think they could continue to do it, but obviously wouldn’t be preferable.

 

JR: Sort of One-Man shows and things like that. Perhaps that one person shows.

 

TN: Know this was actually a pretty big cast, but it’s not paid. This is community. So, you know, it’s not paid. So they can you know, they have different budget constraints than than, say, a professional theater.

 

JR: Are they getting any government, central, regional, state health or anything like that?

 

TN: Theater group is not. This was all done through personal kind of buying of things and donations and other things.

 

JR: I find this really interesting about if we’re all going to change the way we work, we’re going to be working at home. We’re not going to be working so much in big cities. How is the money going to be spent now? It’s not going to be spent on sandwiches and on trains and all cars, even perhaps. How do you think we’re going to spend that money?

 

TN: Amazon. I mean, I don’t know, it’s like food delivery in Amazon. I just I mean, you know, if if people are at home and they’re eating from home, it’s great to have that, you know, homemade sandwich or whatever, you know, on a regular basis. But they’re going to order out or go out locally or something like that. So it’s great to save more money, but I think that’s relatively short term. I think over time, you know, people spend what they make. That’s just what happens. You spend what comes in. I mean, you set some aside from savings, but once you hit that threshold, you spend what you make so people will find ways to spend it. I think they’ll be home delivery. I think there’ll be other things where people just eat better stuff for lunch at home.

 

JR: I think the other thing is and I think this is probably most worrying side of it, is the people who continue to work will actually do very well and actually be saving money and spending money, making a lot of money. And the people who don’t are going to be very badly off and we’re going to have quite a wealth divide as a result.

 

TN: No, it’s terrible. And I think the, you know, the sandwich shops and other things. So my company, we haven’t closed our office through COVID. We live in a county where it wasn’t mandated. And so we’ve tried to patronize the shops around us. But it’s been hard. Many of them have been closed. And but we’ve been trying to go to them, not really to splash out, but just to support people. But in some cases, you know, they were just doing the best they could to serve us.

 

JR: OK, Tony Nash in Houston, Texas, thank you very much indeed for joining me here on Business Matters has been a pleasure to have you here. And we’ll be back again tomorrow with business matters to join us in.

Categories
News Articles

Time To Rotate

Tony Nash joins BFM 89.9 The Business Station for another look at the global markets particularly discussing the “Japanese equity market”. Is it the time to rotate into value or maybe it is a sign that the broader economy is recovering?

 

This podcast first appeared and originally published at https://www.bfm.my/podcast/morning-run/market-watch/time-to-rotate on August 26, 2020.


BFM Description

 

With technology stocks hitting all time highs, there has been some inflow into the finance and utilities sectors. We ask Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence if it is time to rotate into these names. We also ask his views on the Japanese equity market and if there is still money to be made with the change in leadership.

 

Produced by: Mike Gong

 

Presented by: Khoo Hsu Chuang, Wong Shou Ning

 

Show Notes

 

WSN: So far, deeper dive in global markets today. Joining us is Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Good morning, Tony. Now, last night, U.S. tech stocks will slump relatively while laggards like finance and utilities saw some inflows. So do you think this is the time to rotate into value and maybe a sign that the broader economy is recovering?

 

TN: I think it’s certainly a time to to that that that rotation is starting. I don’t necessarily think it’s in full swing yet, but but we’ve received signals for the past week or so that that rotation would start sort of seeing some of the techs off.

 

Today is not really all that surprising, given especially some of the Fed and Treasury statements over the past couple of weeks.

 

KHC: Yeah. So in terms of cyclical stocks, Tony, what is your point of view in terms of which sectors might benefit?

 

TN: Well, I think, you know, we’ve seen tech with companies like Nvidia, Tesla, and these guys have just had amazing gains over the past, say, four months. I think, you know, the rotation into some of the finance stocks, into some other more mainstream, broader market equities is likely. I think the indices are assuming that tech stays at elevated values. That rotation will only help the indices if tech comes off. Given the concentration of waiting within those stocks, it could really hurt some of the overall indices.

 

WSN: And, Tony, let’s focus on one of these, you know, super winners in the last few months. And it’s Tesla, right? They have a decision to sell five billion worth of shares. Is that smart or overly ambitious? Move now. And what more what kind of growth can we expect from this company?

 

TN: Well, the I think the the growth in the stock price is very different from the growth of the company, so Tesla’s trading at a PE ratio of almost 1200.

 

OK, the stock’s more than doubled since March. So, you know, the company itself isn’t doubling. You know, I think it has. I think what the management is doing is making a very smart decision to sell equity while they know the price is very high. So from a management perspective, I think that was a very smart decision. In terms of a buyers perspective, I’m not so sure it’s possible that Tesla stays at these elevated level. People have been trying to short Tesla for years and it just hasn’t worked.

 

So it’s possible there’s growth there and it’s possible they stay at these elevated levels.

 

WSN: So, Tony, are you a big fan of Tesla? This level…

 

TN: It’s hard not to be whether I’m a buyer, personally or not, I would hesitate here. But, gosh, you know, I think there are other places to look that are better value.

 

But it really, you know, part of it really all depends where the stimulus is going. So since the Treasury and Fed are intervening in markets, if they’re targeting specific equities or specific sectors, then you kind of have to follow that money.

 

And so it’s it all depends on how much further these things are going to run and where that stimulus is targeted.

 

KHC: OK, based on PMI data, most of Asia remains contractionary. But for China, of course. You know, Tony, in your opinion, why is recovery not yet forthcoming? And is there a main catalyst needed for manufacturing to take off?

 

TN: Yeah, I mean, look, in terms of manufacturing PMI, as you have Indonesia, Thailand, South Korea, Taiwan, you know, they’re all growing, which is great. Myanmar is actually growing faster than China.

 

But what we don’t have really is the demand pull. And that’s been a real problem. And, you know, we’ve been talking about that since February and we’ve been really worried about deflation. And, you know, what we see even in Southeast Asia is government intervention in markets is really what, propping up a lot of the activity. And I think, you know, the big question I have is, will we see steam come out of recovery in Asia in the same way we’ve started to see steam come out of recovery in the U.S.?

 

I think the answer is unfortunately, probably yes. And I think until the demand from both consumers and companies comes back and the fear of covid wanes, I think we’ve got some some volatility ahead.

 

We’re expecting some real trouble in September. I think it’s great that markets are doing well today, but we’re starting to see the the momentum really slow this month.

And without additional help from the Fed or PEOC or other folks, it really slows down. The problem is the efficacy of that support really deteriorates the more you add to the system.

 

WSN: And Tony, look at Japan, right?

 

I mean, are trading the equities. They are trading at a steep discount to their historical premiums. Do you see any value in yen based assets? After all, Warren Buffett himself just dipped his toes into it by six billion dollars worth of trading companies did. What do you think?

 

TN: Well, that’s the answer. I mean, it’s hard to it’s hard to bet against Buffett. He’s obviously seeing real value there. And I think the Japanese trading companies are really, really interesting because they’re you know, they’re a very good play right now. So is there a value? Sure. I think there’s value there. I think with Japan, a lot of the story is around productivity and automation. If if Japan can continue to raise its productivity through automation, I think it will be a very good play.

 

If that productivity and if the level of automation slows down, then it becomes questionable because everyone knows about the demographic story in Japan, but the economy continues to grow, which is really amazing.

 

WSN: So it seems like you’re quite a believer in that this can overcome some of the structural issues. But what about the fact that Abe has resigned for health reasons? Does it change at all the economic and monetary policies in Japan that might change your decision?

 

TN: Yeah, I think when someone like Abe steps down,  there’s always momentum. So it last for several months. The real question is, how long should the next leadership last? And is there enough structural stability to continue the momentum in Japan, meaning it’s not growing leaps and bounds, but it’s stable growth and it’s healthy growth. So I like Japan a lot. We have had reform under Abe. We have had structural reform under Abe. I think it’s much more healthy today than it was in 2011 or 2010. A lot’s been done.

 

Japan has the capability to continue to improve, but it all really depends. There are regional dynamics and there are domestic dynamics. But again, I think if demand regionally and globally doesn’t return, which is likely COVID induced, then I think Japan, like everywhere else, will have issues.

 

WSN: All right. Thank you for your time. That was Tony Nash of Complete Intelligence, speaking to us from Houston, Texas.

Categories
Podcasts

Mo’ Money, Mo’ Honey

Tony Nash speaks with the BFM team in Malaysia to explain what’s going on in the US markets and economy after the FOMC announcement. What it means for gold and other assets, if businesses actually spend the excess cash for capital reinvestment, how this adds to wealth inequality in America, and how do tech stocks and traditional stocks compare?

 

BFM Notes

 

In the US, the FOMC left interest rates unchanged, pledging to continue with their quantitative easing till 2022, indicating that America’s markets will continue soaring on the back of this wall of cheap liquidity.

 

Tony Nash, the CEO of Complete Intelligence in Texas, discusses the implications of what commentators are calling the Fed’s ‘yield curve control’ policy.

 

Produced by: Michael Gong

Presented by: Roshan Kanesan, Noelle Lim, Khoo Hsu Chuang

 

Listen to this podcast in BFM: The Business Station.

 

Show Notes

 

BFM: Let’s talk about the markets in the U.S. Markets whipsawed as all attention was on the FOMC meeting. The Dow closed down one percent. The S&P 500 closed down 0.5 percent. But the Nasdaq closed up in the green. 0.7 percent. What about Asia? Asia was rather mixed. The Shanghai Composite ended down 0.4 percent. The Hang Seng was marginally down by 0.03 percent. The Nikkei 225, I think they closed up about 0.2 percent. And FBM was up 0.01 percent. Just barely in the green — 0.01 percent. Now for more on global markets, we speak to Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Tony, are you down the line with us?

 

TN: Yes, sir. Morning.

 

BFM: Good morning to you. Now, the FOMC left interest rates unchanged of the meeting, pledging to continue with quantitative easing till 2022. What does this tell you about the state of the economy there?

 

TN: The Fed is really just trying to create stability. We see them, like you said, the next three years, they’ll keep them the same. We think that they’ll just reinforce some of the policies they’ve already put in place. One of the areas we see them focusing on is on yield curve control, although that’s not explicit. We really see that as an area that they’re moving in to encourage capital investment.

 

We’ve really seen capital investment fall here in the States, especially since the COVID time. Oil and gas companies have trimmed billions of dollars of capital investment, for example. So if they can have low-cost borrowing through a yield curve control, it could help that.

 

BFM: What are the implications of doing this? Yield curve control that, for example, on gold?

 

TN: The environment generally with both QE, which is meant to provide liquidity, and yield curve control, which is meant to provide low interest rates, what that does is it really pushes the Dollar down. Although it’s not perfectly inverse, there is generally inverse relationship between the Dollar and gold. So if it’s intended to push the value of the Dollar down, one would expect gold to rise.

 

BFM: Tony, yield curve control can also be called money printing, which has been happening for the last ten, twelve years from an evidence shil standpoint. Have corporations actually spend some of that excess cash on capital reinvestment or have they done it in terms of paying dividends to themselves and their shareholders or even worse, share buybacks?

 

TN: Mostly share buybacks. But share buybacks and dividends, one can argue are similar. It’s just a different form of paying back shareholders. So share buybacks have really been made to be evil over the last, say, five, 10 years or something. But it’s really similar to a dividend that it brings value to the investors themselves. So is it a good thing? I don’t necessarily think so, but it is just one form of getting money back to investors.

 

It’s not necessarily helping capital investment. It hasn’t necessarily helped capital investment. And so, you know, looking at things like yield curve control, what we’ve seen is a lot of QE, but we haven’t seen as much yield curve control. So yield curve control could be one way to provide more incentive for capex.

 

BFM: Well, that hasn’t happened clearly. And to what extent do you think that that policy has exacerbated the wealth inequality in the country, in the United States, which some say has manifested themselves in some of these demonstrations you see all over the country?

 

TN: That’s a very complicated question. And we can spend a lot of time on it. So I think whether a yield curve control has done that, I can’t necessarily argue for or against it. Has QE done that? Oh, surely. I mean, QE has definitely contributed to inequality. It’s definitely contributed more to capital concentration itself than overall inequality. Capital is concentrated with the investment class rather than, say, the working class. Although that sounds very Marxist and it didn’t really mean it to sound that way, but it’s really helped to concentrate capital.

 

BFM: Well, let’s take a look at last night. The U.S. markets were mixed overnight. Is this a reality check that the recovery may not be as soon or as sharp as anticipated by investors?

 

TN: The kind of the relief rally we’ve seen over the past few weeks has really been one of really just excitement that COVID is ending and really hopeful that things will open, as well as recognition of the Fed’s activity and the Treasury’s activity of getting trillions of dollars into the economy. As investors realize how slow those openings are going to be and the impact that it will have on Q2 earnings, but potentially Q3 earnings. I think we’ll see some of this enthusiasm fall away. So markets are trying to find that level. What is that level? And because there is so much uncertainty, we don’t really know that level. This is why we’ve expected volatility through Q2 and into Q3 until there’s more clarity about the pace of opening, how that will affect different industries, and the severity of, say, a second wave. And to be honest, whether people really care about the second wave.

 

BFM: Well, NASDAQ has passed ten thousand and valuation is at the highest in the last 15 years. Where do you think tech stocks will go from here?

 

TN: It really all depends on how companies focus on things like productivity. If we continue to see layoffs and unemployment, companies may decide to invest in technology. We may see some real broad-based investment in productivity like we did twenty five to 20 years ago when companies really started to invest in computing and Internet and all these other productivity shows, it’s quite possible that we see that across large companies.

 

It’s really questionable. Have we expanded valuations as far as we can or is there further expansion there?

 

BFM: Just following up on that. We’ve seen the market recover in the U.S., but there’s definitely a divergence between how the tech stocks have performed and how the larger S&P 500 has performed. Do you think there’s a lot more room for tech stock? Do you think these two indexes will actually going to diverge at this point?

 

TN: We may see a little bit of divergence, but I don’t see that much divergence. I think there is a lot of synchronization within those indexes. We may see a bit like we saw today, but I don’t think that will continue in a massive way.

 

BFM: So when you mean synchronicity, you mean that they will track each other in a parallel? But there is a gap between something like the NY Fang index and the S&P in general. Is that due to the S&P just being weighted down by other classes of assets there?

 

TN: Sure, yeah. It’s looking at traditional businesses that have physical assets and a lot of legacy employees and retirement commitments. These sorts of things really weight down old traditional businesses. The Fang’s, for example, they don’t have a huge retirement commitments than, say, a large manufacturer that’s maybe a 100 years old has. As those things play through and this really has to do with the aging of baby boomers, really. Those retirement commitments will age with them and then they’ll phase out eventually.

 

But a lot of this is around again, those companies are not as efficient as they could be. And until they get to a level of efficiency that they need, we’re gonna see a drag on their earnings. So, of course, with guys like the Fang’s, since they have kind of virtual software related businesses, they will have valuations that are much more generous than traditional, say S&P 500 businesses.

 

BFM: All right, Tony. Thank you so much for your time this morning. That was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence.

I think just ending that point is how this divergence between traditional industries and tech industries had been even more highlighted by what we’ve seen.

Yeah, I think that’s really quite concerning because the alternative point of view is that of the Fed’s money printing policy, which has really accelerated exponentially the last three months. There really is no indication from Trump, from Jay Powell, that he has an exit strategy in mind or has any exit strategy at all. Because how do you unwind this much? You basically dopamine the markets without having some kind of pain. It’s very clear, I mean, even though he was quite tempered in his response, this inequality has been really exec-abated for the last 10 years.

 

Categories
Podcasts

How long can the bull run?

Now that the bull run has started, Tony Nash CEO and Founder of Complete Intelligence joins BFM 89.9 in another global markets discussion. What’s behind this rally and will it be sustained? They also discuss OPEC, the Brent price and its future, Europe’s fiscal stimulus, the ECB, and the resumption of trade war between the U.S. and China.

 

Listen to the podcast on BFM: The Business Station.

 

BFM Description:

On the back of an emerging bull run in Asia and the U.S., we reach out to Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence, for his thoughts on whether or not this momentum can be maintained, oil prices, as well as the ECB’s bond purchase programme.

 

Produced by: Michael Gong

 

Presented by: Wong Shou Ning, Lyn Mak

 

 

Show Notes

 

 

BFM: U.S. stocks extended their rally into the eighth straight day as investors clung to optimism for quick recovery from the pandemic. So the Dow Jones closed up 2.1 percent. The S&P 500 closed up 1.8 percent, and NASDAQ was up 0.8 percent. In fact, NASDAQ in the intraday trading did touch an all-time high. It’s as if COVID-19 never happened.

 

Meanwhile, Asia also had a very good run. Nikkei 225 closed at 1.3 percent. Shanghai was barely up, though. It was flat at 0.1 percent. Hang Seng was up 1.4 percent. Singapore was the big surprise here. We talked about it yesterday. The banking stocks were up and this caused the Straits Times Index to go up by 3.4 percent. Meanwhile, on the FBMKLCI, our market was up 2.1 percent. Also on the back of banking stocks, public bank RHP saw almost a pulping double-digit gains.

 

Pandemic? What pandemic? Never happened.

 

So this morning, for more insight into global markets, we have on the line with us Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence. Thanks very much for joining us this morning, Tony.

 

Now, equities have recently exhibited strong bullish momentum in both Asia and the U.S.. What’s behind this rally? And is it sustainable?

 

TN: I think a lot of it is the monetary policy expectations and the stimulus expectations washing through. It’s a lot of hope around activity in the summer, say, for crude prices, driving and consumption. There’s an expectation that there’s been some pent up consumption because of COVID. Some of this is coming back. It’s key to know that the U.S. markets are still 10 percent below where they were pre-COVID, 10 percent or more. So it’s not completely as if things never happened, but it has come back relatively quickly. The S&P, for example, was at around 2300. So we’ve climbed about 700 points in the S&P 500 since the nadir of COVID.

 

BFM: I always ask our commentators this, and I’m going to ask you also. Why the disconnect between what is happening on Main Street versus what’s happening on Wall Street.

 

TN: There’s an expectation that most publicly traded companies are going to pack as much bad news into Q2 as possible. And so they’re just throwing the kitchen sink into Q2. So that should mean pretty clear sailing for the rest of the year, assuming that it is 2020 and all. So anything can happen. But assuming that there isn’t another major catastrophe, things should be pretty clear for the rest of the year if every- and anything that could go wrong goes into Q2 data.

 

BFM: Brent has also erased some of its recent gains and is back below the $40 a barrel mark with the OPEC meeting now in doubt. What do you think oil prices will be heading?

 

TN: Our view is that things have been pretty range traded. We don’t see things going up to, say, $50 anytime soon. It’s possible. But we’ve expected things to stay pretty range traded until probably August or so.

 

We’re going to see daily rises and we’re going to see falls. But prices have come back a little bit on some drawdowns we’ve seen in storage and expectations around driving. Although, It’s not a perfect substitution for flying. And those volumes will still be down until we start to see people get back on planes. And until we start to see commuters back on their daily drives, we really don’t expect to see things come back above, say, $50 for Brent.

 

BFM: Shifting to Europe. The ECB is expected to expand its bond repurchase program this Thursday. So they’ve got a currency 750 billion euros outlay. Is that enough or do you think they need to increase it?

 

TN: It’s not enough. But I don’t know that Europe really has the financial wherewithal to do much more. They are not a fiscal union. And so they’re really having to contort their mandate to make sure that they can do this. This is really pushing Europe and the ECB and the concept of a quasi-fiscal union under the E.U. is putting real pressure on that.

 

So the limits of the monetary, not fiscal union are really pressed. And when you look at things like the insolvencies we saw in Greece and Italy and other places in southern Europe over the last 10 years, places like Germany are just tired of fiscal stimulus of other countries in the EU.

 

BFM: And if you look at the equity markets in Europe, that’s been also the lag out. Do you think there’s any opportunities there or is it a similar situation whereby the corporates there are going to not perform up to par?

 

TN: No, we don’t think they’ll perform up to par. Until we see countries beyond Germany really lift some of these lockdowns in a big way, it’s going to be really slow going. It’s strange how we’ve seen these protests really go against the lockdown. We may actually see some of these countries rip the Band-Aid off, because if you have tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of protesters out there, it may be a situation where you can just say, “Well, lockdown’s over,” and you may start to see consumption patterns come back to normal. That would be a good thing for markets. That would be a good thing for companies. But European companies, especially European banks, remain troubled. And I think this crisis has really forced those banks to look in the mirror. And if markets are functioning well, then we’ll start to see some consequences, particularly for European banks.

 

BFM: Thank you very much for speaking with us this morning, Tony. And that was Tony Nash, CEO of Complete Intelligence.

 

He made some comments there about Brent crude, which he doesn’t really expect to come above the fifty dollars per barrel mark until perhaps we see planes start flying again. But the Trump administration has just made an announcement to that effect, saying that they are suspending passenger flights to the U.S. by Chinese airlines effective June 16th.

 

So the U.S. government said in a statement that it was responding to the failure of the Chinese government to allow U.S. carriers to fly to and from China. Now, this hasn’t, of course, been good for the tensions that have already been flaring between the two countries over the handling of COVID-19, as well as the treatment of Hong Kong.

 

China recently paused some agriculture imports after Trump threatened to limit the policy exemptions that allow America to treat Hong Kong differently than the mainland.

 

And that was done. The global economy was cheering and it looks like they’ve started fighting again. I think I’m just curious, what else is there to fight over? Because there’s been soybeans, beef, pork imports, corn, and now airlines.

 

U.S. airlines did see a bit of a share surge amidst the broader market rally and signs that travel demand is starting to rebound. Boeing was up 13 percent at one point after a report from IATA indicated that recovery was underway for global airlines.

 

So looks like we’re going to be watching that space as well, quite closely.